pointless debating this but look at a map where is east Ukraine and Crimea? Murderous Regime lol

this is a good video by some conspiracy theory nutters, explains what I see pretty well. I'm going to leave now gl

Bump

"Britains kill list" 7 minutes into the video in my last post
in incidents like this what is shown to the heard is decided by M15
dont know anything about Litvineko, dont always follow the news
Russia not stupid
.

Basically what we have here is a dispute between 2 large nations. One makes bold claims based on a short investigation and it is coupled with a propaganda campaign. The other claims no involvement

What reason do you have other than blind nationalism to believe this? Certainly not evidence

wow, more than 2 words from Husker, now I see why you don't usually post any content. You don't have the benefit of being balanced because of your reactionary nationalism.

Russian regime is imperialist and murderous, nobody is defending them so your argument is defunct. You however, are waving your union flag and neo-con western foreign policy as parroted by people on the pro-war 'left' like John Woodcock et al, who you support.

US and British bombs are killing 1000 Syrians every month. May is selling bombs to the Saudis to murder Yemeni children. So let's not try to take the moral high ground, you will lose.
The US Army itself accepts (yet doesn't challenge obv) that Russian aggression is a response to western expansion into the former Soviet bloc, as I linked earlier.

So your govt lied to you to win support for killing a million Iraqis, putting your kids at risk of terrorism in this country and de-stabilising a continent allowing medieval killing squads to take power.

But somehow this one HAS to be Russia because the gurn-smirking puppet of a PM who cant tie her own **** shoelaces and is basically the worst ever PM by anyone's standards is telling you to trust her? Good luck with that

And the lies continue

Observer editorial states

It involved the use of a chemical weapon on European soil for the first time since 1945
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...in-theresa-may

Yet their own paper reported in 2006 that

More than 400 military personnel were deliberately exposed to chemical weapons in government-run experiments which seriously breached ethical standards, an official report has concluded. The men were exposed to painful amounts of nerve gas and mustard gas by scientists at the Porton Down chemical warfare establishment in Wiltshire.
The report published yesterday was commissioned by the Ministry of Defence in 2000, following pressure from many veterans who complained that the experiments had inflicted lasting damage on their health. The ministry asked Professor Sir Ian Kennedy, an expert in scientific ethics, to evaluate the work of the Porton scientists.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t....greenpolitics

Instead of sneering at it try making a meaningful contribution of the sort you frequently threaten to do but rarely actually do.

What interests me about this is two things.

Firstly, why would Putin want the attempted assassinations to happen in such a way that they'd be inevitably linked back to him and would likely result in a major diplomatic incident and possibly further economic sanctions that would harm his basket-case economy even more? I get the idea of him enjoying posturing on the world stage, showing off what he's able to get away with, but it's still a big -EV move for him, and he's not a stupid man. Why is it out of the question that MI5, no stranger to bumping people off themselves, found this a convenient thing to do just before Russian elections?

EDIT: before anyone else says it -


Secondly, if there's a non-trivial chance that someone other than Putin is responsible, say 20%, how does the government play this?

I think this is about as plausible as Russian mafia/rogue agent hypothesis, which I think is pretty unlikely as why would the mafia get involved in chemical weapons when they can just fake his suicide.

There is no doubt May is on pretty comfortable ground when she is standing in front of a podium talking tough rhetoric, and the moderate bounce for her in the polls compared with the weak labour response means the govt/MI5 had a motive, albeit a weak one.

However even as a layperson applying circumstantial evidence, the motive for Putin is far stronger. Conflict plays as well domestically for Putin as it has done for May, so I don't really think he was on unsafe ground before the election.

think its clear that they want everyone to know they were responsible, while still maintaining the thinnest imaginable veneer of deniability so that they can do the usual deny and distract ****. this theory obv massively strengthened by the litvinenko case

as for why, lots of plausible theories out there. the one that i find most convincing is that it'll be useful in the upcoming election, if not for the result (which is ofc already determined) then at least for the purposes of boosting turnout. also there was a chance that this episode might've led to a crack in nato relations, particularly given the circumstances surrounding the game show host in-chief (fortunately no such crack has emerged, the response has been uniform and unequivocal. suck it vlad)

on why risk a major diplomatic incident/sanctions, i dont know his reasoning but it's presumably similar to all the other times that russia has acted in such a manner in the recent past

It's sad to see you stoop to such open lies. I've posted extensive analysis on various subjects on here, mainly in relation to the finances etc surrounding independence and you even acknowledged it at the time. The fact you're just resorting to trolling now pretty much says it all.

Watched this part and there's no mention of any murdered spys, nevermind evidence.

This 78 year old woman might have something to say on the subject of British secret service behaviour .. .if she was still alive.

On this particular issue is obv what I meant where you have posted nothing except join the chorus of smears.
So, I ask again, what in any of corbyn's statements do you disagree with in the last week?

Nobody going for the warmongering options in this post Iraq world obv

40% support article 5 jfc

Where is that poll from?

'Strongmen' always need supposed foreign enemies to reinforce their popularity and distract from their kleptocratic looting and mobilise the population's xenophobia. I think Orwell summed it up in the 'Two-Minute Hate.'

MI5 don't bump people off, they certainly don't bump off MI6 agents, and the Russian elections are fixed and of no interest.

There is no realistic chance at all that anyone but Putin is responsible, just as there wasn't in the Litvinenko case. Labour have now corrected their position and are completely agreeing with the prime minister on that.

Opinium

also
- no photographs/video released of victims/witnesses
- reports that the policeman was at Skripals house, conflicts with reports he 'tended' to both the man and daughter at the public bench

Re stockpiles, it seems v odd that Russia would covertly continue to develop/maintain this weapon just months after the OPCW confirmed destruction of the entire Russian chemical weapons programme. Putin says 'haha, I actually kept some behind to use in the near future against former spies' as he strokes his cat.

And yes re Syria, there is a contradiction -

The crux of it is this: At this point, neither the US nor Britain have offered any actual evidence as to why the OPCW’s verification process regarding Russia’s dismantlement of its chemical weapons capability should be disbelieved. They have provided no evidence that Russia retains any Novichok stockpiles.

The OPCW is, of course, the same agency whose independent investigations the West is relying on to determine culpability in major chemical weapons attacks in Syria. Why, then, would the OPCW’s conclusions on Syria be considered gospel truth, while its conclusions on Russia be rejected?
https://medium.com/insurge-intellige...*-a69b4ee484ce

Ah but wait, Boris has said there is 'more evidence' so rest assured, the future of the nation is in safe hands. (His sister did say 'Corbyn is right' though, christmas dinner must get very interesting at the Johnsons)

Orwell a man of truth would have no truck with this nonsense, cringeworthy you see fit to reference him.

tomj & trade up,

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1. It was a botched operation. No one intended for this to go down the way it did.

2. The idea that Putin himself signed this off is lol. It will have been a senior leadership figure in FSB. That said given Putin is Head of State he is ultimately responsible.

3. Agreeing with the newly registered obvious russian shill is obvious is never a good look and is reserved for posters the quality of tomj, you can do better.

Isn't the correct critism of may here not that she went too hard 'without evidence' but that she didn't go far enough. That she doesn't dare to lift the rock of the city to look for dodgy russian money because of what she knows she'll find under there.

I can recommend the book "A very expensive poison" which details the Litvinenko poisoning. There isn't a shred of doubt that Russia was behind that poisoning and it was also done with a poison that was easily traceable back to Russia.