UK Politics Thread - Page 336 - Politics and Economics

got a mate who's into the whole corbyn malarkey, she's exceptionally bright but not too up on history/politics/political theory and all that

someone gimme a book recommendation, i wanna get her something which serves as a toe-dip into the philosophy and history of lefty leanings. nothing too mental please

06-20-2017 , 05:06 AM

#8377

tomj

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4,543

I'd recommend Owen Jones - Chavs, the establishment, both are contemporary and accessible.
David Harvey, a brief history of neo-liberalism is fairly dense with graphs and stuff but pretty essential imo.
In terms of left wing histories, everything is very subjective ofc. Chris Harman, a People's history of the world (inspired by Howard Zinn a People's history of the US)
I'd suggest the website marxists.org and go for Rosa Luxembourg, Trotsky, Lenin, Gramsci.
Richard Seymour wrote one about Corbyn, not read it but Seymour is fantastic.

06-20-2017 , 05:11 AM

#8378

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOIDS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capita...-First_Century

Quote:

On May 18, 2014, the English edition reached number one on the New York Times Best Seller list for best selling hardcover nonfiction[2] and became the greatest sales success ever of academic publisher Harvard University Press.[3]

06-20-2017 , 06:33 AM

#8379

epcfast

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,535

Pretty much what I wrote a few days ago

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40330789

Quote:

Four ministers were warned about tower block fire risks
Four separate government ministers were warned that fire regulations were not keeping people safe, in letters that have subsequently been seen by the BBC.

In the leaked letters, experts warn that those living in tower blocks like Grenfell Tower were "at risk".

At least 79 people are dead or missing presumed dead after the fire at the London high-rise last week.

The department that received the letters said work to improve regulation and safety had already been under way.

Leaked letters

The letters show experts have been worried about fire safety in tower blocks for years.

Following a fatal fire in Lakanal House in south London in 2009, a series of recommendations were made to keep people safe.

They were ignored. The government promised a review of fire regulations in 2013, but it still has not happened.

BBC One's Panorama has obtained a dozen letters sent by the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety and Rescue Group.

Informed by experts, it warned the government it "could not afford to wait for another tragedy".

Four ministers - all from the Department for Communities and Local Government - received letters but did not strengthen the regulations.

Ronnie King, a former chief fire officer who sits on the group, says the government has ignored repeated warnings about tower block safety.

"We have spent four years saying 'Listen, we have got the evidence, we've provided you with the evidence, there is clear public opinion towards this, you ought to move on this'," said Mr King
After six people were killed at Lakanal House in 2009, the coroner made a series of safety recommendations for the government to consider.

The government department promised a review in 2013, but it was soon delayed.

In March 2014, the parliamentary group wrote: "Surely… when you already have credible evidence to justify updating… the guidance… which will lead to saving of lives, you don't need to wait another three years in addition to the two already spent since the research findings were updated, in order to take action?

"As there are estimated to be another 4,000 older tower blocks in the UK, without automatic sprinkler protection, can we really afford to wait for another tragedy to occur before we amend this weakness?"

After further correspondence, Liberal Democrat MP Steven Williams - who was then a minister in the department - replied: "I have neither seen nor heard anything that would suggest that consideration of these specific potential changes is urgent and I am not willing to disrupt the work of this department by asking that these matters are brought forward."

The group replied to say they "were at a loss to understand, how you had concluded that credible and independent evidence, which had life safety implications, was NOT considered to be urgent".

"As a consequence the group wishes to point out to you that should a major fire tragedy, with loss of life, occur between now and 2017 in, for example, a residential care facility or a purpose built block of flats, where the matters which had been raised here, were found to be contributory to the outcome, then the group would be bound to bring this to others' attention."

The letters were written before the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower.

One went to the-then Communities and Local Government Secretary Eric Pickles, who received a letter about fire regulations from the parliamentary group in February 2014.

He had also been asked to look at fire safety in February 2013 and March 2013 by two separate coroners, investigating two tower block fires.
In December 2015, the all-party group wrote to Conservative MP James Wharton, another minister in the department at the time, and warned about the risk of fires spreading on the outside of buildings with cladding.

"Today's buildings have a much higher content of readily available combustible material. Examples are timber and polystyrene mixes in structure, cladding and insulation.

"This fire hazard results in many fires because adequate recommendations to developers simply do not exist. There is little or no requirement to mitigate external fire spread."

The last of the four ministers in the department to receive a letter was Gavin Barwell, who has since moved on to become Theresa May's top aide. He received his letter from the parliamentary group in September last year.

In November, Mr Barwell replied to say his department had been looking at the regulations, and would make a statement "in due course".

In April this year, Mr Barwell wrote to say he did "acknowledge that producing a statement on building regulations has taken longer than I had envisaged".

The fire safety group pointed out that it had been "given a similar response by three successive ministers since 2010" and it "is now time to listen to what the Fire Sector is saying".

The government has said there is still no timetable for a review.

The Department for Communities and Local Government said that a police investigation into the Grenfell Fire is already under way "but it will be some time before it is fully understood how the fire started or why it took hold in the way it did."

In a statement, it added: "The government has acted to improve fire regulation and safety, including the recommendations made by the Coroner following the Lakanal House Fire.

"The final recommendation concerned simplification of fire safety guidance, and this work was under way, with a consultation due to be published this summer.

"Fire safety requirements are complex issues and our priority has been that we have high standards. A great deal of work has been completed, including commissioning and undertaking research to support the planned consultation. Clearly, in light of this tragic event, we need to reflect on whether this consultation is the correct next step to take. We will confirm our approach shortly."
In a separate development, Panorama has discovered that firefighters put out the first fire at Grenfell Tower.

They were called to a fridge fire, and within minutes told residents the fire was out in the flat.

The crew was leaving the building when firefighters outside spotted flames rising up the side of the building.

The Fire Brigades Union say firefighters were left facing an unprecedented fire, and officers broke their own safety protocol to rescue people.

06-20-2017 , 06:53 AM

#8380

BOIDS

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think i'll go with something by luxemburg (she's on a feminist kick also, so something by her seems ideal) plus oafk's suggestion for something a bit more contemporary

any specific luxemburg recommendation?

Last edited by BOIDS; 06-20-2017 at 06:59 AM.

06-20-2017 , 07:16 AM

#8381

daca

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Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,499

nobody actually reads piketty. it's 700 pages and boring. anyone interested should find a good review instead.

there's some great orwell newspaper writing on political issues. so some collection of orwell articles and columns maybe. as i please is supposed to be the best.

06-20-2017 , 08:34 AM

#8382

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

I read it.

06-20-2017 , 08:41 AM

#8383

tomj

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOIDS

The one I have is selected works. There is 'essential Rosa l' which is reform or revolution and the mass strike, amazon. But they're on marxists.org for free. These are highly contextual to Germany and Russia around 1905 etc.
Feminism - ariel levy female chauvinist pigs

06-20-2017 , 08:43 AM

#8384

dereds

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOIDS

What's your goal? To dissuade her from being into the whole Corbyn malarkey or to have her inform her already held beliefs?

I also found Joeseph Stliglitz the price of inequality much more accessible than the Piketty which remains largely unread.

I also think the Gramsci and Luxemburg recommendations go a good bit deeper than a toe dip, Trotsky as well but he has some more accessible stuff but I'm not sure of the relevance. G. A. Cohen why not socialism at <100 pages and very clearly written would also be a good start.

Last edited by dereds; 06-20-2017 at 08:51 AM.

06-20-2017 , 08:50 AM

#8385

BOIDS

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na not dissuasion

she's become very passionate about the ills of inequality and i want her to absorb respectable lefty work instead of thecanary.co and some commie idiot she works with who thinks money should be banned

she already knows those are trash sources of info but doesn't really know where else to look

06-20-2017 , 08:53 AM

#8386

dereds

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

Cool I've edited above but think the Price of Inequality and Why not Socialism are good starts and are easily accessible. TomJ mentioned Richard Seymour and his blog over at leninology goes into more detail on particular questions and is generally much better than the canary. I don't agree with everything but he thinks and writes alright.

06-20-2017 , 09:43 AM

#8387

daca

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Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,499

the david kynaston's books on the social history of post-war britain are supposedly really good https://www.goodreads.com/series/195...-new-jerusalem

rawls' "a theory of justice" is something ive been wanting to read for ages but it's way too long too. basically all books should be shorter.

ive read naomi klein's shock doctrine which is incredibly influential and has some good points but it's also kinda trash tbh

and the spirit level by some english figures. that's trash too

06-20-2017 , 09:45 AM

#8388

PartyGirlUK

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Pikkety is technical and written mostly for economists. People buy it and do not read it a la A Brief History Of Time. Stiglitz is very good. Jones is one of the more intellectually honest exponents of Corbynism & his books are focused on the UK (unlike Pikkety & Stiglitz). Would be a bit preaching to the choir with your friend imo but maybe that's what you're looking for.

06-20-2017 , 10:20 AM

#8389

joejoe1337

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 16,215

Can I un-recommend Owen Jones - the establishment?

06-20-2017 , 10:25 AM

#8390

tomj

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by joejoe1337

Can I un-recommend Owen Jones - the establishment?

Why?

06-20-2017 , 10:26 AM

#8391

BOIDS

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Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 13,844

i cant give owen jones any money, he's got enough of it plus his face is v slappable. got to draw the line somewhere

have ordered why not socialism, 100 odd pages seems ideal length for a toe dip (not bloody cheap though. thirteen quid, socialism my arse)

will decide on one more later

06-20-2017 , 10:44 AM

#8392

epcfast

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,535

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOIDS

Let us know how your "friend" enjoys it Boids.

06-20-2017 , 10:54 AM

#8393

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

If you want something a bit more pop:

The State We're in by Will Hutton is old now but sold really well, would give an good insight into how thatcherism and neo-liberalism were a radical break in 79 and how the left ought to respond.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/State-Were-.../dp/0099366819

06-20-2017 , 11:01 AM

#8394

PartyGirlUK

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Doubt you'll take me up but for the second book buy something free market. Give her both sides (ooh err) and let her decide.

06-20-2017 , 11:01 AM

#8395

dereds

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOIDS

It's a small book as well, pocket sized, like there's about a couple of hours reading in it which isn't great for that price. If you want to cancel at that price I'll see if I can find a digital copy somewhere. It's still a great book though.

It's available here

Last edited by dereds; 06-20-2017 at 11:07 AM.

06-20-2017 , 11:20 AM

#8396

BOIDS

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 13,844

Quote:

Originally Posted by PartyGirlUK

Doubt you'll take me up but for the second book buy something free market. Give her both sides (ooh err) and let her decide.

our first idea was that i was gonna get her something along the lines of why not kill all the poor and she was gonna get me what has freedom ever done for anyone, but i reckon she'll be much more interested and get a lot more out of a couple rigorous and respectable works on leftiness

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereds

nah its alright, i think a bitesized offering to start is perfect and i wont miss the 13 quid, will just decline to feed the cat for the next couple weeks to make it back

06-20-2017 , 11:26 AM

#8397

tomj

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereds

For an 'unscientific' persuasive/idealist approach I'd go with William Morris, news from nowhere

06-20-2017 , 11:43 AM

#8398

epcfast

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,535

Heseltine is worried

Quote:

He told Sky News: "One thing which is just worth having in mind, and you can't do anything about it, 2% of the older part of the electorate die every year - they are 70% Conservative.

"Another 2% come in at the young end of the electorate - they are about 70% Labour. That's about 2% change each year. There isn't that much time."

This is horrible
http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/wes...der-infuriate/

Quote:

This letter sent by Kensington and Chelsea's council leader, Nick Paget-Brown, to residents in 2014 will absolutely infuriate you.