MOD NOTE: I excised this from another thread. Now the OP makes less sense but you get the idea.

I can see from the last 3 posts how much better this forum will be when all the libtards are gone. Such discourse.

I can occasionally stop in and pretend to be triggered, if that helps.

Odd post. The current owners want all the "libtards" as you put it gone, and are literally holding the door open for that exodus. The "libtards" have a place of their own now with the help of 2+2 (the permanent link) to do with as they see fit. They will likely close this forum in the near future, which at that time (given the links to the other forum) few people who visit here will really notice or care. What does making this forum better have to do with it? DO=on't see that being anyone's goal.

Anyway, best of luck with the new forum, and have fun.

yes very odd good post monte

Thanks. Your name seems a bit familiar and you have a ton of posts, so I assume we spoke before, and I have no doubt you always gave it your best effort to make your point, and hopefully that strength will carry you proudly to your new forum where I wish all of you the best of luck in the future working together.

The reason the forum is being closed is because a few right-wing posters continually complained in ATF about unfair treatment - while openly cheering for the forum to be shut down.

After several attempts at addressing the problem of upset right-wingers like Bundy and Juan Valdez - the owners finally gave up and decided to close the forum.

I appreciate you providing your perspective of what happened as I admit I missed it being away this weekend. I guess I would doubt that a couple posters really had that much influence and would go with the much simpler explanation that the people who own this site were already quite tired of the drama of this forum (kind of understandable) and found a way to just end it, albeit in a very cooperative manner.

Still, the best part of your new forum is that you and all the others within your tight knit group can blame whomever you like ( I would wait a little while as 2+2 seems to be cooperating by providing a link, but not my choice) whenever you like as much as you like. You can take turns slam dunking like the Globetrotters against the Generals. That is the beauty of having your own forum - you can do whatever you like, and as long as all of the people continue to work together then everything should go well in the end.

They clearly wanted you guys gone ( I am somewhat indifferent as I actually still read here because I am in the online poker industry), and you guys will have the freedom you need in your new forum. Just go there and have fun. Saying it will be better than this politics forum is silly - they do not want to have one so yeah yours hopefully will be better .

Care to wager on this?

I don't think it is getting closed either but who knows.

Because it's bull**** to have to leave for nothing more than dominating the debate vs. arguments that don't hold water.

The only drama came from butthurt deplorables who clearly had an agenda - claiming unfair treatment when their blatant racism and constant bad-faith trolling wasn't coddled. If the owner wasn't sympathetic to their political views, they would have been laughed out of ATF like every other whiny unreasonable poster.

Multiple attempts were made to create a playground for these posters - which quickly devolved into stormfront every time. Yet somehow the main forum is the problem.

If every forum was shut down over hurt feelings and whining in ATF, 2p2 would have ceased to exist a long time ago.

Think you are fancy playing this. Odds are you guys were asked to leave because that is something the management of this site wanted for a while, and whatever happened this weekend was the final straw. I still have no idea what the specific thing was (if any) so feel free to let me know, because I aint searching to find out .

I do not mean to be insensitive, but as someone who has been in the online poker industry for about 15 years I have come to expect that massive changes happen all the time, usually when a person gets in a comfortable position, as that is always the best time for a groin shot. Thing is, I do not recall any soft landings like you guys are getting with the transition and link to the other site. When Genting decided to end our affiliate deal for instance, we found out because they stopped paying and when we asked they told us that they decided to end the deals, thanks for all the customers and have a nice day!

The management here are allowing a link to a different site which I have basically never seen allowed except for this specific one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5...tbChannel=null

For whatever reason you have to leave - you are getting a gentle exit.



You are a bit biased on this assessment, so while there may be some truth to it - it is also pretty silly to believe that the "good guy" side was not a source of drama. Most of the regs here were quite high on the drama scale, but that is common in a forum like this with fairly narrow accepted beliefs.

I actually got temp banned here for trolling by a mod (I am horrid with remembering names I think it was Snookie) when over a year ago I asked if people would still respect Mueller's report when it came out if it did not have the conclusions they thought it should have. I was swarmed and called a deplorable and had a ton of personal attacks tossed at me, a bunch of really weird, stalky PMs (implying I was another account of one of the deplorables you guys always hate on). Was kind of ironic how things turned out on the Mueller thing, especially with the adjusted reactions, but that was happenstance, and hardly gifted insight.

Now, since I have posted a lot in the riggie thread that type of reaction was nothing new to me (though fewer violence and death threats via PM than riggies would do) and I found the 8 on 1 to make it a more even match once I saw my question was hurled back at me with venom. I simply picked the softer targets to reply to for a while until a mod yelled at everyone to stop replying etc.

Over a year later I tried again with a serious suggestion that the posters here create a thread where they list the type of political volunteer work they have done and/or some of their general experiences and that was met with some LOLs and some more sanitized insulting replies as it was in the nicer behavior era. Was I surprised? Nah. Did I care ? Not really. Still, it was a genuine suggestion and hopefully someone started a thread like that on the new forum as I still believe that would add some depth to the regs who live in the forums. If it was created by the right person then it will be considered a very good thread idea .

You seem like a decent person, and I have no memory of chatting with you in the past, but if you believe the big bad deplorables were the only source of drama - that is a tad naive.

I have been on these boards for about 14 years and I have no idea what the ATF even is =O.

Regardless, the reality is that this is a website owned by a person and fairness is never a guarantee, just as it was not when I would post once in a while in this forum. I accepted that as the way of the world, and you might want to come to grips with that as well.

I did take a quick glance at that new forum, and it seems that many there are very, very happy to have a place to call their own. Obviously things may change once the energy of the divorce wears off, much like on the TV show Survivor how things change after people live with each other for a while. You guys are an exceptionally intelligent group of people according to you guys, so use that and the energy you have and the very , VERY friendly departure terms (the spamming of the link is insane good and unexpected) to make the best of this new venture.

You need to accept that things change and charge forward and make the very best of it. That is always the best approach in a world that changes faster and faster.

Thank you for the discussion and I wish you and the rest of the people starting your new site the best of luck in that adventure. I hope there will be updates about it here at times as well. Best of luck, and have fun with it.

You sure have a lot of strong opinions and navel-gazing essay-length thoughts on the matter for someone who apparently knows zero specifics about anything. Maybe you should actually look into the specific incidents - they're well documented - including this "last straw" which was basically nothing. Also all this smarmy double-speak stuff about being happy in your new home is creepy.

I've been on this forum since 2008 when it was dominated by AC-ists. We won out over time through the power of our arguments. That's all I want. This site could be packed with conservatives and I'd still be here debating them. I don't watch MSNBC, I don't listen to Chapo Trap House. I don't like preaching to the choir or being in the choir that's preached to.

I just want good faith debate - which apparently is impossible for right-wingers to pull off these days for some reason. So instead they sequester themselves into delicate hothouses where the obvious logical fallacies and blatant hypocrisies in the FoxNews talking points of the day go completely unchallenged.

The management can obviously do whatever they want. It's their site. But don't ask me to pretend that Politics regs are at fault for it. All the "drama" was manufactured by a few trolls who were literally openly cheering the whole time for the forum to be banished. They couldn't have been more obvious in their motives.

If you were just pretending to be triggered in ATF the other day it was a very convincing performance.

See, now that is the typical type of reply I, and many others, would get when they posted here .

Realistically after this post I will just find another forum here to browse once in a while when I have time. I will take your word that it was nothing, so there is no reason to waste any time researching it, even if I actually cared.

Again you are fancy playing. This forum was an awkward fit for an online poker forum, with the management in place here. The new forum (apologies if calling it a home is creepy to you for some reason (even though others talked about the need for a new home)) seems to be a better fit for many there.

No idea what an ACist is. Seriously. Google suggests it is a place that sells medical systems. Must be some evil systems.

Congratulations on that victory.


Well, that is what you want. I want my $5K+ a month back from Genting. You get me what I want and I promise to let you crush and dunk on me in several arguments to get you what you want.

Unfortunately as we both experienced - you can't always get what you want. Welcome to the world.

Got it. They are very bad people who are denying you your need for good faith debating.

You still have that victory against the medical systems company.

Yup.



I do not expect any regs would put any of the fault on themselves, and yet even with that dynamic they now have a new forum (not home) with the support of this one when no support like that was required.

At least you would have crushed them in a good faith debate if it happened.


Dude, in all seriousness - take a little time off ( I tell the same thing to the guys I back who are tilting as you are now). Figure out what you want to do with your time in the future in this area, and if what you say about the impossibility of a good faith debate is true - stop looking for it and don't do 100,000 posts in the next 10+ years and use that time for something else (perhaps in this arena) that would bring you satisfaction. If the new forum does that - great. If the new forum and this one do not - then stop forcing it and move on. Genuine advice. No double speak in this last paragraph, Consider it or toss it aside and continue as you like - choice is yours. Thanks again for the discussion.

They could just change the name of the forum from "Politics" to, "Name-calling and Insinuation as a Political Propaganda Ploy".

If someone says something you disagree with,
1) Demand proofs and references,
2) Contradict him,
3) Ridicule and abuse him,
4) Suggest hateful motivations for his view(misogyny, racism),
5) Demand more proofs and references to overload him with work until he gives up and stops posting.

Oh, sorry, in this forum #4) was #1).

In fact, I think a lot of the posters are quite happy doing this and really believe that people who disagree with them are almost always racist and/or sexist.

I wonder if some college professors have their student become political activists by going on line and doing exactly this sort of thing and for credit.

Rules against ad hominem attacks were very unevenly enforced. FlyWf should have been handed multiple bans and perma-bans a long time ago, and he would have if certain mods didn't happen to share his political views.

The wolf pack like behavior of quite a few posters, when confronted with a contrary viewpoint, is also extremely offputting. I don't know when it happened but many of the liberals that used to engage on facts and arguments have stopped and started using the same rhetorical devices employed by Fox, rhetorical devices they profess to hate.

I see why people asked you to take their SATs.

Yeah the first part was kind of a fly being fly thing - sort of like Trump gets a pass on a ton of stuff now that would have been a mind-boggling scandal for any other president. Probably not right in either case.

The second part is somewhat of true. But holy crap have you ever tried to question accepted wisdom like Starting Strength in Health and Fitness? Or try going into SE and say you think you don't think Bonds should be in the HOF. The groupthink happens everywhere on this site.

If a new poster showed up who seemed to be arguing in good faith - I would go out of my way to engage on arguments even though most regs would feel like they've been asked and answered 100 times. And I agree Politics wasn't great about that.

But even you also have to admit we'd get so many trolls in there that would always start out the same way - seemingly questioning with an open mind - and then within a day the standard talking points start spewing out. I can see why posters came to expect it - even though I still think you have to give the benefit of the doubt.

As far as insults and rhetorical devices towards established posters like you - yeah that happened and it's not right. But I don't think it would have if been as big of a deal if you weren't one of the only conservatives left - because both sides would be doing it. Two fairly evenly matched wolf-packs isn't a big problem.

I honestly think that problem started when conservatives started leaving - not the other way around. And I think conservatives started leaving because they got tired of getting decimated when they come in with unhinged nonsensical right-wing talking points. The same reason why you're not a Trumpfan and can actually see through a ton of the BS. You're an extreme rarity in current times.

When someone makes a thread saying they're going to have to fire an employee if their personal tax on income over $400k goes up 3.9% - how do you respond to that w/o ridiculing it?

Are you seriously saying #1 and #2 are bad things in a politics forum?

It is if you end up at 5 regardless of what's offered. 1 is just bad faith request for example and explanation.

Sure, that must be it.

Yeah FlyWf spared no one - you gotta give him that. I can dig up plenty of times I was on the end of that firehouse for saying heretical stuff like maybe police sergeants shouldn't be pulling in $300k for life, or we shouldn't allow buying Red Bull with foodstamps.

So if a poster comes in talking about no-go zones in London, just let it slide and allow the premise?

Also that wasn't his point. His point was he was annoyed at being asked to provide any references and then being contradicted by a poster who disagrees with him. Imagine. Like I said - a lot of the people complaining about this forum (not you) really do seem to want a hothouse where their delicate ideas can't be trampled on or challenged in any way.

That is the equivalent of giving Trump a pass because he doesn't spare Republicans either.

I'm sorry, I thought your premise was that I give Fly a pass "because he shares my political views." Now it's because he doesn't spare anyone? You need to pick an argument and stick with it my man. Don't worry, you'll get there eventually. Fly got a pass because he's a quality poster, not because his politics are remotely similar to mine, because they are not, other than, you know, neither of us support the fascist currently in office. You, on the other hand, are not a quality poster.