So we should forget about all the crimes that the american government have committed in the past because the president of Ukraine asked Russia for help and the people who live in Crimea wanted Russian annexation?

Maybe you missed the fact that Crimea have been Russian for 400 years and that Ukraine held it as a formality during the soviet era.

Remember them all. Etch them in your heart for all eternity. Or forget. Choice is yours. Remains irrelevant to the discussion of the situation even if more often repeated.

keep derailing the thread
and I don't trust FOX news more than I trust RT
I didn't see one person in that thread praising FOX, only (a few)brain dead people who love RT, you post there without having read the thread, all the infos come from a huddge number of news sources, not one of those sources is FOX you have reading problems

if you have that strong comprehension problems I perfectly understand that you can't understand the title of the thread : it's about ukraine not about the USA

and you make points that have been made several times in the thread before ,no need to make those points again and again : that's propaganda

and BTW

"I mention his religious heritage because of all the intellectual theories that have come out of the Jewish community last 150 years.

Communism, free marked theory, boarder less countries, anti-nationalism.
Just to name a few.

America is build up on those free marked theory's ,how is that working out for them?"
that's pure nazi crap you couldn't do better

once again a derail, then saying something that has been said several times in the thread, and which is the one of the few points that Putin 's propagandists make again and again, plus Crimea has been turkish way longer before being russian

Crimea's History according to wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea


"Throughout the later centuries, Crimea was invaded or occupied successively by the Scythians, Sarmatians, Goths (AD 250), the Huns (376), the Bulgars (4th–8th century), the Khazars (8th century), the state of Kievan Rus' (10th–11th centuries), the Byzantine Empire (1016), the Kipchaks (Kumans) (1050), and the Mongols (1237). In the 13th century, the Republic of Genoa seized the settlements that their rivals, the Venetians, had built along the Crimean coast and gained control of the Crimean economy and the Black Sea commerce for two centuries. The Black Death pandemic came to Europe in the 14th century, probably aboard Genoese merchant ships from the Crimean peninsula.

A number of Turkic peoples, now collectively known as the Crimean Tatars, came to inhabit the peninsula starting with the early Middle Ages. At times these dominated the peninsula demographically, while at other times their numbers dwindled (1750–1944) or disappeared altogether (1944–91), only to reappear again (1991–present) "

"However, the Crimean Khans still had a large amount of autonomy from the Ottoman Empire. In 1774, the Crimean Khans fell under Russian influence with the Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca and, in 1783, the entire Crimea was annexed by the Russian Empire."

"he Crimean Khanate was a Tatar state founded by Hacı I Giray, a descendant of Genghis Khan, from 1441 to 1783. In 1478 the Khanate became a tributary of the Ottoman Empire, during the long wars of Russian expansion it became a formally independent state by the terms of the 1774 Russo-Ottoman Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca, and was annexed by the Russian Empire in 1783"

"Crimea became part of Russia's Taurida Governorate and was the site of much of the fighting in the Crimean War (1853–1856)"

"On 18 October 1921, the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (ASSR) was created as part of the Russian SFSR, which then became part of the Soviet Union."

"On 18 May 1944, the entire population of the Crimean Tatars was forcibly deported in the "Sürgün" (Turkish (Crimean Tatar) for exile) to Central Asia by Joseph Stalin's Soviet government"

"On 19 February 1954, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union issued a decree transferring the Crimean Oblast from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic"

"Following a referendum on 20 January 1991, the Crimean Oblast was upgraded to that of an Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic on 12 February 1991 by the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR"

On 26 February 1992, the Verkhovniy Sovet (the Crimean parliament) renamed the ASSR the Republic of Crimea and proclaimed self-government on 5 May 1992 (which was yet to be approved by a referendum held 2 August 1992) and passed the first Crimean constitution the same day. On 6 May 1992 the same parliament inserted a new sentence into this constitution that declared that Crimea was part of Ukraine.

"On 19 May, Crimea agreed to remain part of Ukraine and annulled its proclamation of self-government but Crimean Communists forced the Ukrainian government to expand on the already extensive autonomous status of Crimea"

"On 14 October 1993, the Crimean parliament established the post of President of Crimea and agreed on a quota of Crimean Tatars represented in the Council of 14. However, political turmoil continued. Amendments to the constitution eased the conflict, but on 17 March 1995, the parliament of Ukraine intervened, scrapping the Crimean Constitution and removing Yuriy Meshkov (the President of Crimea) along with his office for his actions against the state and promoting integration with Russia. After an interim constitution, the current constitution was put into effect, changing the territory's name to the Autonomous Republic of Crimea"

"Following the ratification of the May 1997 Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership on friendship and division of the Black Sea Fleet, international tensions slowly eased."

"On 1 March, the Russian parliament granted President Vladimir Putin the authority to use military force in Ukraine.The move was condemned by many Western and Western-aligned nations"

"the Crimean Parliament released the Ballot Questions for the 16 March referendum"

"On 18 March, the Kremlin in Russia claimed that Crimea is now part of the Russian Federation"





that's the time line
and BTW Crimea is now russian and I don't think that will change, unfortunatly

Seriously, when is a pro-Russia poster going to give us a better argument for Russia's takeover of Crimea than "The US went to war in Iraq?"

If I ever cheat on my wife I'll just tell her "Hey babe, you can't get mad at me. I mean I come on, the US totally went to war based on faulty intelligence. So I don't know why you'd be mad at me. This is George Bush's fault."

It's a ploy to unite the Americans who are usually busy sniping at each other around here.

I like how the free marked theory is a Jewish conspiracy....to do what? Have a bunch of people die of diabetes and heart disease?

How about just being mad at him for being a ****ing spam bot and making this thread unreadable? A shill that happens to be advocating for a viewpoint you agree with is still a shill.

Supply (or sell, once got money to pay) Ukraine with weapons, lots of weapons.

And train their officers in American military academies.

And give them economic aid.

It's the same blueprint US has been using since WWII with Israel, Taiwan, South Korea and many other countries. Recently, they've started admitting officers from Malaysia, Indonesia, and Thai militaries to officer training programs as part of the efforts to contain China in Asia.

Poland, Latvia, Estonia, and a few other former Soviet countries started sending cadets to French/English and German equivalents of West Point and Naval Academies before they joined NATO.

If you think about it, this makes a lot of sense for NATO and US.

Yatsenyuk: Ukraine is ready to take the place of Russia in the G8

Prime Minister of Ukraine Yatsenyuk during a meeting with Canadian Prime Minister c Stephen Harper said that Ukraine is ready to take place in the "Big Eight", if it frees Russia , UNIAN reports.
"If the G8 is for us space, we are ready to take it. Now I urge members of the G8 to build a new system of global security, as well as to attract serious justice those who violate this security "- said Ukrainian Prime reporters at a press briefing after the meeting.


a new system of global security - said a political adventurer and small-minded clown



he's not from the US. I think this guy from Ukraine or from Moscow (where all our opposition located sucking greedily american grants).And he's about 50 years old
96% crimeans that came to vote want this and still celebrate on the streets.
How many iraqis asked you?
Ask your wife what precedent means. Your childish talk is boring.

Remember to mention America. The US is your enemy. External threats trying to topple Russia. No sacrifice or action is too big. All your opposition is enemy agents.

And Iraq. Keep bringing them up. It will make it relevant.

or learn from them
funny how if anyone have a different view, they must be reading russian propaganda

the same points again and again

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”


"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over"


Joseph Goebbels Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany

in that post I appreciate how you quote your gimmick in that thread
you down to pretending you're two persons and you "liked" your own anti semitic posts
sure a conspiracy tard like you was very close to expose the american/jewish conspiracy, that had to be expected
and btw you only have one point of view : the americans are bad let's say yes to putin
funny how when you popped in the thread pretending to be a kind of anti fascist white knight by argumenting on the Ultranationalistic revolution, you in fact, were only making one of the few points of the propaganda


“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”


"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over"


Joseph Goebbels Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany


godwin law?try it
the nazi stuff came after your antisemitic posts

bring your points and stop whining and stop insulting me , ****ing moron

lol

Shut up Goebbels

Lol whos seeing conspiracys?, there are more than two people in Norway.. (my encouragement was due to e9's a new poster and norwegian)

I just said it was funny how if you don't agree with the msm you are somehow a putin apologist, then you immediately posted:
loL avert much..

My view is that the neocons helped provoke the crisis, russia reacted as expected (overly nationalistic after the olympics), they get just crimea instead of country splitting up.
So now russian standing as a 'normal' country is gone, eu gets to build up another eastern europe country, american business set up in ukraine, military complex get coldwar 2 budget and cheaper oil and gas to stop capitalism from collapsing next week.

Nuland’s husband, neoconservative Robert Kagan, whose 2006 Dangerous Nation, urges Americans to realize that their country is an empire now and always has been:

Are you just making up statistics? Unemployment rate in the us has gone up but even now CRUSHES 90% of Europe, we are like 6-7% atm

USA has a lot of problems but it still is the richest country on earth so your bashing of free market economics is lol

mmm

And 100% of North Koreans voted for Kim Jong Un.

I'll play devil's advocate.

Mandela used violence to end apartheid. Russia only used the threat of violence to bring about change in Crimea.

South Africa is now ruled by South Africans, and Crimea is now ruled by Russians. Crimea's history is Russian & the majority of the people there are Russian, so it should be governed by Russians. Being part of Ukraine never made any sense for Crimea, except as some kind of weird PR move for the USSR in 1954.

I'm not saying Russia's threat of force was warranted, but I can see both sides of the issue. BTW, there are still people who argue against Mandela's use of force, & call him a terrorist.

So I guess if you want to make everyone happy, then you can only use non-violent resistance to achieve your goals. But then again, even Gandhi has his critics... so it's pretty hard to accomplish anything without criticism.

The other anti-Russian argument is that Crimea should have used a true, democratic vote if they wanted to leave Ukraine. But, that idea sort of goes out the window in this situation, because the democratically elected leader of Ukraine was forced to leave the country.

So if Crimea should have waited until the next scheduled election to leave Ukraine, then the entire country should have waited until the next election if they wanted to choose a new president.

Of course, Putin undermined Ukraine's democracy in the first place with his bribe to keep them distanced from the EU. Then again, the US also undermined Ukraine's democracy by funding anti-Russian NGO's in Kiev.

You can go around in circles... but I think Crimea going to Russia is better than trying to keep them in Ukraine (because of the demographics).

Richest Country are we ignoring debt? Yes The USA has the most money but its held by about 10 people?


I think the Average person of G7 countries see's it that way also. Though when the ballot doesn't have the choice to stay part of the Ukraine it really isnt a valid vote. Not sure why Putin did not allow that choice the results would have been the same.

Nice post. This is the most reasoned pro-Russia argument I've seen ITT.