It existed under Republican Rudy Giuliani and otherwise-socially-liberal RINO Michael Bloomberg. It has since been heavily curtailed, to 1/10th of what it used to be and with different procedures that are scrutinized to the hilt, under Democrat Bill DeBlasio.

It's the world's most worthless tactic.

I expect Trump to continue to do this. Form loose associations with the head of some company, get their support, then announce he was "involved" in some plan that already existed which saves some small number of jobs. It's great optics as it pertains to his rube followers, who will eat it up each and every time whir pretending Obama's millions-of-jobs-created don't exist.

in case you missed it, he thinks trump is creating good paying full time jobs with benefits. by lowering the minimum wage and eliminating unions.

It would be a legitimately great tactic if it wasn't just an obvious excuse to harass black people.

Oh, and if it wasn't a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment.
No, no, no, be fair. Trump's creating good paying full time jobs by giving companies tax breaks to keep a few token jobs in the US.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. I guess when you don't have facts to back up your empty thoughts, lies will have to do. They had better work, right? It's all you got.

if republicans achieve their dream of abolishing labor unions, those 800 ford jobs will be just as miserable as 800 walmart jobs. but luckily for them, lowering the minimum wage would mean they'd still remain comparatively better off to the walmart workers, who will have to start living in communal slums

It's amazing how people are hailing this Trump saving 800 Ford jobs as a great thing. I mean it's good, but it's a mere drop in the bucket.

Point out that Obama saved the auto industry from collapsing, thus saving hundreds of thousands of jobs (perhaps more) and they bristle at that.

They will also not be high-paying low skill jobs but rather engineering positions that focus on designing self-driving and electric cars...you know, science stuff.

Basically what is happening is corporate welfare in place of social welfare. The programs for poor people will be and are being cut. At the same time, large businesses are getting token tax breaks. This is great for anyone with stocks or a good living, but terrible for like 80% of people.

I'm actually not going to go in on this because,

Sigh. Please never vote again.

Say what you will about Trump supporters, but to my knowledge they haven't scalped anyone... yet.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38514759

Wait I gotta go in a little harder

Lestat is WOKE AF about the pernicious influence of the wealthy on, uh, food stamps or something?

Then, talking about a literal ****ing millionare conman:

Seriously we can't win over these people, it's all incoherent hero worship and right wing chain emails, it's brain poisoning. **** Stan, **** Stan's vote, we need to beat him, not convince him.

C'mon man. I meant I didn't have time to fully research it. I did read the NYPost article. Maybe I'm not as smart as some of you or just don't have the time to devote on in depth research. I admit I'm more apt to unintentionally spew misinformation than you might be. But I don't just shoot from the hip either and I'm often citing stuff I've read.

And yes... I DO feel guilty voting sometimes. Not for president because I take the time to really know their positions. But I do feel guilty not knowing enough about the down ballot candidates and think MOST people really don't do the necessary groundwork before voting. But I'm guilty as charged with the down ballot.

Dude you've somehow managed to discover that the rich run the country to the detriment of the poor.

And you hate the government for all it's regulations and taxes and food stamps.

So here's a pop quiz. How do the top 1% feel about those things? Which party is friendlier to the interests of the wealthy, and what are their positions on those issues?

It's like you're a doctor seeing a guy with arsenic poisoning, but your natural inclination is to give him more arsenic because, you know, you're a free thinker and you saw this ad which really seems to make some good points:


and you're REAL ****ING SKEPTICAL about anyone saying give him less arsenic. Close minded liberals think they are right not giving more arsenic a chance.

(Arsenic is capitalism in this analogy. The guy is America. You're killing us.)

You're like a professional word twister. Maybe YOU should enter politics if you're not in it already. Did you take a college course in misdirection?

I said straight up that I'm reaching for **** to feel good about this guy. Any hint whatsoever that he might at least mean well. You take that and twist it into my showing hero worship for Trump! lololol. Man you're an Olympic mental gymnast.

Like you inexplicably give Bernie Sanders credit for being a good guy working in government but for ****'s sake you appear to virulently disagree with him on literally every single issue, including the single most important issue of the role of government.

HOW. WHY. What is going on?

Problem: Corporations and the rich have too much influence and lobby to get what they want.

Solution: Do exactly what the corporations and rich want, but not in exchange for lobbying, just out of the ****ing principle of it?

For ****'s sake at least in the old way the rich people had to PAY for union-busting laws. (that's why they spend all that time on PR campaigns and funding right wing think tanks and media sources. National Review, The Federalist, etc... none of those publications turn a profit. They are partially-to-completely funded by donations)

He's just asking questions!

Not ALL regulations. I'm not one of those zero regulations capitalists. I have no problem with agencies like the EPA. I'm for many socialist programs. I could go balls out 100% socialism as long as it was FAIR. Afaik the NFL seems to run on a socialist system and it seems to work pretty well for them.

There you go pigeon holing people into groups again. Pretty sure people like Angelina Jolie, Buffet, Zuckerberg, Gates are all 1%ers and they appear overwhelmingly liberal and Democrat. But I'm guessing the bankers, media execs, CEOs of energy companies, are no doubt Republican.

But I'm talking about the politicians themselves. You really think HRC gives a **** about the plight of the inner cities while she gets paid a queen's sum to give speeches to big banks? You think her husband gave much thought as to how his crime bill would affect the lives and families of minorities? 4 out of the last 5 Illiniois governments served prison terms. 3 of them have a (D) next to their name. They're corrupt dude! They don't give a **** about their constituents outside of getting elected and obtaining power.

You're joking, but I know a guy who literally thinks Chemo is a scam and that scientists (and government) have been sitting on the cure of apricot seeds that will cure cancer naturally. There are some nutboxes in this world and they vote! Call me what you will, but I'm not that ****ing stupid!

That's even weirder! So you are aware of the concept of bull****. You can identify bull**** in the wild.

But "food stamps are to keep the poor people poor, the people we should be listening to about the welfare state are the Koch Bros" passes the smell test?

Well, candidly, yes I do. She's not without her liberal bonafides, she worked for legal aid and ****, but more importantly, to use her words:

What difference does it make? Say she's a total ****ing sociopath. She still proposed, in 2016, policies that would've helped those people. Subsidized college. Criminal justice reform.

If Donald Trump really does care but his sincere caring leads him to propose taking away their health insurance and instituting national stop and frisk, is that better or worse?

Bernie Sanders is (in my view) one of the most honest politicians I've ever heard. He's the ONLY one I know of who is genuinely sincere about what he says. I don't agree with him on everything, but I absolutely voted for him in the primaries and would've done so without hesitation in the general. Unfortunately, there was a dishonest Democrat that stood in his way. A one HRC who felt she should be anointed the nomination ahead of a peasant socialist like Sanders. How dare he challenge her!

And I'm sure I don't have to tell you Sanders is NOT a Democrat (any more than Trump is a Republican). He's an all out socialist.

Sorry, I'm not an economics major and I admit it. I don't actually know what solutions would work best for all. Raising the minimum wage sounds like a great idea, but I can't calculate the actual net effect it would have on businesses and the economy. People much smarter than you or I have very real differences on this issue. Which is what makes Noodle Wazlib's glib posts just show his glaring ignorance and inability to think for himself so he just piles on thinking he's so smart (when it's clear he isn't).

At least I got you attempting to answer some of my questions, which represent the same questions many other Americans have. I trust that you really have studied and know much more about all of this than I do. But at least I know what I don't know and am willing to ask questions even if it means exposing my ignorance to find out. But I don't just take the first perspective even if it's from someone like yourself who I at least respect for having studied and put a lot of thought into these things. Because there are other who have done the same came to different conclusions. So I like a debate of both sides before I decide where I land.

Why in the devil would I say David Duke? (hint: this whole meme of Scream Racist is 98% swamp fever dreams)

The point is you're reinventing the wheel with these moderate-to-far-right-libertarian takes. Especially with the particular history of this particular forum.

Does it alarm you that Bernie would be opposed to almost everything you've said here post-The Birth Of Stan?

Bernie's not a socialist.

Odds trump tweets about this?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...?client=safari

Absolutely horrific.

I'd rather my tax money be spent on the root cause of the problem which I see as better education, safer schools and neighborhoods, etc. I'm even willing to pay a higher tax for these things. This is the best way to give minorities a real shot to escape the poverty they are trapped in. Giving someone food stamps and saying here... Go try feeding your family on this, doesn't seem to be working. This experiment has been going on for decades. I'm all for social welfare, but goddammit, give them a real shot at a proper education and a worthwhile career in their adult life! If you give me a choice between finishing high school (college isn't even an option) and going to work at Burger King for the rest of my life, or I can join a gang and run drugs making $70k/yr. I'll take the $70k and probably wind up dead or in jail by 25. But are you gonna blame me for passing on going the legit rout?

And that's where racism comes in because many white Americans say, hey no one told you to join a gang! You could've gone to school, take that minimum wage job and done it the right way! Work your way out of poverty! Yeah, right. **** you! I like money as much as the next guy and if I have to risk jail or even being shot by a rival gang, I'd rather be what you consider a thug and make $70k a year.

I think you're right, but I also think she'd sell her soul to get elected or at least not lose her power. Have a private and public persona? I'm sure she started out with good intentions. But a lifelong career in politics has a way of corrupting you.

All good things. Notice she was forced to adopt some of Sanders talking points. And even then, she didn't campaign hard enough with the black voters or even the middle class. Her main strategy seemed to be play it safe, sit back, and let Trump self destruct.

It's worse, of course. But I'm hoping he's slicker than even his voters are giving him credit for. He's already broken several campaign promises or re prioritized his rhetoric. He's often at war with the GOP. I'm hoping against hope that maybe he goes rogue and says wtf do I care? I'm already rich and I'm gonna stick it to these rich Republicans and really try to help the lower and middle class of this country and MAGA. Again, I'm reaching for ****, and he may not be smart enough to do that if he wanted to. But we're stuck with the guy, so I'm just trying to grab onto something that makes me want him to succeed. There's something very dire about summoning your inner Rush Limbaugh and hoping for your president to fail.