Trump’s America - Page 125 - Politics and Economics

A spokeswoman for U.C. Berkeley’s campus police, Sgt. Sabrina Reich, said in an email that it was “routine to seize money as evidence of an illegal transaction.”

The money, she explained, is needed as evidence.

That rationale drew skepticism from some criminal justice experts.

“If the hot dog vendor is operating without a permit, the proper mechanism is to give him a ticket,” said Lee McGrath, senior legislative counsel at the Institute for Justice, a public-interest law firm that has been critical of civil forfeiture practices.

“The idea that certain serial numbers on certain bills are evidence is an absurd concept,” he added.

The idea that this money in his wallet = evidence is pretty ****ing dubious. Without having spent a significant amount of time watching the guy (and I know nobody here thinks the police were staking this guy out) the police don't know how much of it was actually the result of ILLICIT HOT DOG sales. Taking a photo of the money or having him sign a statement that he had $60 in his wallet or whatever accomplishes the same effect, evidence-wise, as confiscating the money itself.

In any case, he'll be fine, and thank god that the rest of the public isn't afflicted with the same raised-by-wolves idiocy exhibited ITT:

Quote:

An online fund-raiser to help the vendor, identified in reports as Beto Matias, has raised nearly $70,000.

Martin Flores, who recorded the video and initiated the campaign, said some of the money would be used to buy Mr. Matias a proper food truck.

“I’m going to tell you this,” he said, “when we get the truck for him, he’s going to have a permit. He’s going to be ready to rock ‘n’ roll.”

09-13-2017 , 03:19 PM

#3103

goofyballer

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Getting back to Trump's America: Man's racist attack and ranting at a Starbucks three months ago results in felony hate crime charges

Quote:

William Boucher, 24, was originally charged with misdemeanor battery June 6 after he "became irate" when someone spilled a drink on him inside the coffee shop, police said. Boucher's rant ended in his spitting and throwing a punch at apparent strangers outside the Starbucks, sending one man to the hospital, police said.

Quote:

In additional video footage, Boucher, who is white, can be seen hurling racist insults at two black bystanders in broad daylight. He appears to be wearing a cream-colored suit that has visible drink stains.

"Shut up, slave! Do not talk to me!" Boucher yells at the two black men. "Your children are disposable vermin!"

Someone who appears to be a Starbucks employee tries to intervene in the video, but Boucher continues yelling toward one of the men, who is walking away: "Get on all fours! Do not walk off on two legs!"

Shortly after that, police said, Boucher punched a 59-year-old man without provocation. The man, who was reportedly homeless, was taken to a hospital with an eye injury, according to ABC7 News.

MAGA

09-13-2017 , 03:21 PM

#3104

jalfrezi

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But how will the freedom of speech extremists react?

09-13-2017 , 03:28 PM

#3105

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

NYT with a blurb on the hot dog vendor

The idea that this money in his wallet = evidence is pretty ****ing dubious. Without having spent a significant amount of time watching the guy (and I know nobody here thinks the police were staking this guy out) the police don't know how much of it was actually the result of ILLICIT HOT DOG sales. Taking a photo of the money or having him sign a statement that he had $60 in his wallet or whatever accomplishes the same effect, evidence-wise, as confiscating the money itself.

In any case, he'll be fine, and thank god that the rest of the public isn't afflicted with the same raised-by-wolves idiocy exhibited ITT:

the point is not evidencing how much he made

but prohibiting him from enjoying the fruits of his illicit activity

I don't know if he was keeping the hot-dog money in his wallet, though. That seems like an odd item to use as a cash-box.

09-13-2017 , 03:35 PM

#3106

amoeba

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The fine is the legal punishment for operating without a license, not confiscating all revenue.

09-13-2017 , 03:36 PM

#3107

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

I don't know if he was keeping the hot-dog money in his wallet, though. That seems like an odd item to use as a cash-box.

...and yet here you are licking the **** out of those police boots on the subject anyway, you're pathetic

09-13-2017 , 03:53 PM

#3108

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

...and yet here you are licking the **** out of those police boots on the subject anyway, you're pathetic

incredible - I start to bend a sympathetic ear, and you smack it again anyway

Was it always like this around here? Or has Trump done to the left what Obama did to the right?

09-13-2017 , 03:54 PM

#3109

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by amoeba

The fine is the legal punishment for operating without a license, not confiscating all revenue.

I think the idea is that the revenues may exceed the fines.

And if one is not entitled to certain property to begin with, it is no punishment to take it from them.

09-13-2017 , 03:59 PM

#3110

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

incredible - I start to bend a sympathetic ear, and you smack it again anyway

Was it always like this around here? Or has Trump done to the left what Obama did to the right?

What, sorry, you think a momentary "sympathetic ear" right before going into further defense of your original deplorable position deserves respect? You still haven't necessarily retracted any of your previous posts on this subject. If you want people to be nicer to you then do better at not being deplorable on a regular basis, then we'll talk.

09-13-2017 , 04:05 PM

#3111

iamnotawerewolf

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If you want me to retract a position, you're going to have to show why I should, understanding that bare name-calling (boot-licker, deplorable) doesn't get you there.

09-13-2017 , 04:08 PM

#3112

goofyballer

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lol, yeah, thanks for showing why your "sympathetic ear" got exactly the response it deserved. You still don't disagree with any of your previous deplorable posts! Trolls don't deserve for others to "show work", they deserve to be told to shut the **** up. So, shut the **** up.

09-13-2017 , 04:10 PM

#3113

iamnotawerewolf

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Seems like I can defend the civil forfeiture system while complaining that a police officer abused his discretion within that system.

09-13-2017 , 04:14 PM

#3114

amoeba

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

I think the idea is that the revenues may exceed the fines.

And if one is not entitled to certain property to begin with, it is no punishment to take it from them.

How large the revenue is in relation to the fine is irrelevant.

Once again, The fine is the legally defined punishment for the violation of operating without a license.

If you get caught driving without a license, you get a ticket. You dont get your car confiscated.

09-13-2017 , 04:18 PM

#3115

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by amoeba

You do if you don't have someone else to come pick it up...

but I know what you mean.

The thing you're missing is that civil forfeiture is not punishment. It is reclamation.

09-13-2017 , 04:21 PM

#3116

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

Seems like I can defend the civil forfeiture system while complaining that a police officer abused his discretion within that system.

lol, this is Lestat-level gaslighting

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

the money was booked into evidence, not absorbed by the officer or the department

the vendor did not obtain a permit, ergo he broke the law

that this is painted as a robbery feeds the narrative that the police are unfairly scrutinized and therefor hurts the narrative that the police actually do overstep their authority on a fairly regular basis

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

the guy is making money from an illegal enterprise

that money is ill-gotten

this is really not a difficult position

"Oh yeah I was totally consistent with you guys that this officer 'abused his discretion'"

Shut the **** up

09-13-2017 , 04:22 PM

#3117

amoeba

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You dont get your car confiscated for a parking ticket, then.

I am not missing anything. Reclamation of what?

I wasnt aware reclamation of unlicensed food vendor revenue is anywhere in the books.

09-13-2017 , 04:24 PM

#3118

iamnotawerewolf

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"gaslighting"

I love all of these little terms you guys throw around instead of making coherent arguments.

09-13-2017 , 04:27 PM

#3119

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by amoeba

You dont get your car confiscated for a parking ticket, then.

I am not missing anything. Reclamation of what?

I wasnt aware reclamation of unlicensed food vendor revenue is anywhere in the books.

civil forfeiture is "on the books", man

reclamation of ill-gotten property - if society, via The Law, deems narcotics sales to be a common drain, then taking drug-money from a narcotics dealer and reinvesting back into society is reclamation

if you're a thief, your victims can ask to get their money back

etc

also, and I probably shouldn't nit given my unpopularity around here, but you will totally get towed if you don't remove that bucket of bolts!

09-13-2017 , 04:31 PM

#3120

amoeba

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Sure and then you pay a fine and get your car back.

Obviously civil forfeiture is on the books for narcotics sales.

Operating a vendor without a license is much closer to a parking ticket than narcotics sale.

09-13-2017 , 04:36 PM

#3121

amoeba

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We're not making coherent arguments? You're the one equating unlicensed food vendors to narcotics sales.

When people died from eating some bad Chipotle or bad Blue Bell ice cream, did the government sieze all revenue for the quarter?

09-13-2017 , 04:37 PM

#3122

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by amoeba

you don't have the car by way of parking it illegally

09-13-2017 , 04:39 PM

#3123

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by amoeba

goofyballer isn't making any arguments. he's just name-calling.

I am only equating the two insofar as both constitute criminal activity, which is a relevant threshold in this discussion.

did chipotle or blue bell violate criminal laws?

also, you are opening dangerous ground for your position, inviting a responsive "did"/"should" question if you were to find a comparable example with an affirmative answer.

Last edited by iamnotawerewolf; 09-13-2017 at 04:44 PM.

09-13-2017 , 04:43 PM

#3124

amoeba

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That is a good point and I will agree that the parking ticket example is not a good one, fair enough.

How about every corporate violation of regulation?