Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Politics political discourse

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-05-2018, 01:03 AM   #126
dth123451
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,505
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Again you don't know what you're talking about. FICA was always paid.

By the way, there were over six years when I worked and didn't didn't pay FICA. This was during the time I was a federal employee and we didn't pay FICA.

Mason
I'm sure you paid FICA for your employees. Separately, not taking a salary as an owner is asking for trouble. DUCY?

You probably didn't pay FICA as a federal employee because you were eligible for a separate defined benefit retirement plan.
dth123451 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 01:06 AM   #127
Parlay Slow
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Parlay Slow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,050
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Curious how the passing of ACA directly led to a rational decision to lay off workers. Were you able to automate their work?

I am assuming their tasks were essential to the company and that they were not being employed on some sort of charitable basis.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Parlay Slow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 01:09 AM   #128
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,613
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dth123451 View Post
I'm sure you paid FICA for your employees. Separately, not taking a salary as an owner is asking for trouble. DUCY?
No. I have always paid FICA.

Quote:
You probably didn't pay FICA as a federal employee because you were eligible for a separate defined benefit retirement plan.
This is correct.

MM
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 01:10 AM   #129
jmakin
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 29,139
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

The height of the poker boom was in the middle of a deep recession so i dont know what the **** you’re on, even if your assumptions are correct, which they arent
jmakin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 01:12 AM   #130
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,613
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parlay Slow View Post
Curious how the passing of ACA directly led to a rational decision to lay off workers. Were you able to automate their work?
The number of books we were selling year to year dropped.

Quote:
I am assuming their tasks were essential to the company and that they were not being employed on some sort of charitable basis.
What a dumb statement. By the way, my wife and I do have our own charity, but what we give away doesn't go to company employees.

MM
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 01:17 AM   #131
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,613
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
The height of the poker boom was in the middle of a deep recession so i dont know what the **** you’re on, even if your assumptions are correct, which they arent
The Poker Boom was for us approximately 2003 through 2009. 2005 was our best year for selling books, and 2008 was our best year for this website.

It wasn't that the years after 2009 were bad, but by 2010 things were slowing down as far as we were concerned.

Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 01:19 AM   #132
jmakin
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 29,139
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

I'd say the height of popularity was easily 2008-2011, but anyway, my point is the state of the economy seems a terrible predictor for the state of poker.

without a doubt the boom would've lasted much longer without the site shutdowns in the USA.

personal anecdote - i don't play poker anymore because the sites are terrible, the rake is high, and the games are bad. It has absolutely nothing to do with my disposable income, which is higher than it's ever been at any point in my life.
jmakin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 01:26 AM   #133
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,613
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
I'd say the height of popularity was easily 2008-2011, but anyway, my point is the state of the economy seems a terrible predictor for the state of poker.
Well, we were seeing a definite slowdown in 2010. For others it certainly might have been different.

Quote:
without a doubt the boom would've lasted much longer without the site shutdowns in the USA.
I agree that things would have been much better and while the decline may have still happened, the rate of decline would certainly had been slower.

Quote:
personal anecdote - i don't play poker anymore because the sites are terrible, the rake is high, and the games are bad. It has absolutely nothing to do with my disposable income, which is higher than it's ever been at any point in my life.
I certainly agree on the rake being too high.

Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 02:04 AM   #134
Parlay Slow
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Parlay Slow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,050
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

I recall you stating you would layoff workers if ACA passed and then in this thread you seemed to relate the two.

Good to see you now implicitly admit that there would be no rational explanation for this unless you could somehow automate/outsource, or the work was already superfluous.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Parlay Slow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 02:19 AM   #135
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,613
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parlay Slow View Post
I recall you stating you would layoff workers if ACA passed and then in this thread you seemed to relate the two.

Good to see you now implicitly admit that there would be no rational explanation for this unless you could somehow automate/outsource, or the work was already superfluous.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
We did lay off a couple of people and a couple of our ad representatives do virtually no work for us anymore.

In our case, the ACA didn't directly affect us because we're too small of a company employee wise. But you need to understand that whenever the government does something, whatever it might be, that reduces disposable income it's going to hurt poker, and whenever the government does something that increases disposable income, it should help poker.

By the way, since health insurance seems to be such an important issue for you, I believe that it should be ended except for catastrophic insurance. What I notice is that when in a doctor's office there are usually a bunch of clerks working insurance forms for every doctor, plus the fact that the insurance company makes a profit. So eliminating health insurance should bring health care costs down and probably by a lot.

Now I also recognize that this idea is more complex than it at first appears because what is a catastrophic amount for a low income person may not be the same for someone of higher income. But this is something that can be worked out. Also, there would be the medicare issue for people who have spent years paying into the system who when older expect to get something back. And probably a few other things.

Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 02:26 AM   #136
Parlay Slow
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Parlay Slow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,050
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Good info. I guess since Trump just put $1.5T on the credit card we can assume it's good for poker then.

Question asked and answered.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Parlay Slow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 02:30 AM   #137
goofyballer
 
goofyballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 64,874
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
But you need to understand that whenever the government does something, whatever it might be, that reduces disposable income it's going to hurt poker, and whenever the government does something that increases disposable income, it should help poker.
You continue to vote for the party that passed UIGEA
goofyballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 02:32 AM   #138
Parlay Slow
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Parlay Slow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,050
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parlay Slow View Post
Good info. I guess since Trump just put $1.5T on the credit card we can assume it's good for poker then.

Question asked and answered.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Ok so you edited your post to make mine nonsensical.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Parlay Slow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 02:34 AM   #139
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,613
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parlay Slow View Post
Good info. I guess since Trump just put $1.5T on the credit card we can assume it's good for poker then.

Question asked and answered.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Actually, this is a concern. The idea is that the tax cuts should stimulate economic growth which will increase revenue to the government, and it certainly was that way under Reagan.

However, under Reagan interest rates started to come down, which is also good for growing the economy while the fear now is that interest rates will go up which can hurt long term growth. My hope is that the Fed can raise interest rates slowly, to combat inflation, without reducing the economic growth. That's the gamble.

Now it happens to be a gamble that I think is worth taking, but there is certainly risk involved.

Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 02:41 AM   #140
Parlay Slow
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Parlay Slow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,050
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
By the way, since health insurance seems to be such an important issue for you, I believe that it should be ended except for catastrophic insurance.
Mason
While health insurance is an important issue for me, it's not why I brought it up.

I just happen to resent the old saw about how any tax/benefit/protection conferred onto workers will invariably end up harming them or will be passed onto consumers in some way. It's the sort of economic logic that works on rubes, but is beneath the level of the forum that you own.

I'll allow others to ask about how the Reagan tax cuts actually *raised* govt revenue.
Parlay Slow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 02:44 AM   #141
formula72
veteran
 
formula72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,382
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
The height of the poker boom was in the middle of a deep recession so i dont know what the **** you’re on, even if your assumptions are correct, which they arent
No

NLH began to rear its ugly face when it gave its viewers the ability to see the player's hole cards in what was the biggest televised hold'em tournaments that included the best or what was believed to be the best poker players at the time.

Live poker + disposable income/08 crash held each other's hands as it leaped of the cliff while the most determined flocked into online poker for the hope that it would suit their fancy. It later ****ed them just the same.
formula72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 02:51 AM   #142
Jbrochu
banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 16,076
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Trickle down ITT.
Jbrochu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 03:22 AM   #143
Oroku$aki
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Oroku$aki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Blithe
Posts: 6,980
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
But I've never claimed to be a nice person. During our heyday, both David and I would say that we could care less if you liked us or thought that we were nice. But we also said that unless you were that extremely rare poker talent, if you wanted to improve your poker game, then you needed to read and study 2+2 books.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
What a dumb statement. By the way, my wife and I do have our own charity, but what we give away doesn't go to company employees.

MM
Oroku$aki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 06:31 AM   #144
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,613
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
it's not as often we see someone like Mason, who would have millions more dollars in his bank account were it not for UIGEA
It's correct that the UIGEA hurt many poker businesses.

Quote:
continue to live in such a delusion that he's spent the last 10 years since then continuing to advocate for the election of members of that party (McCain, Romney, Heller, Trump) that explicitly endorse anti-poker policy.
I must be missing something here. I don't believe that any of these people endorse anti-poker policy. There are specific well known Republicans like Lindsey Graham who are anti-poker, and I did speak out about defeating him in his 2014 reelection bid for the Senate (which unfortunately had no chance to happen).

Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 06:44 AM   #145
Lawnmower Man
veteran
 
Lawnmower Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,759
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Well looky here boys, we've got us a REAGAN REPUBLICAN that thinks dynamic scoring is real. They may have laid off workers because of Obamacare-but-not-really-Obamacare, but 2p2 definitely did not cut any costs on Kool-Aid.
Lawnmower Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 07:04 AM   #146
Wakko
adept
 
Wakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: avoiding Crown Casino like it's HIV
Posts: 754
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
You continue to vote for the party that passed UIGEA
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
You continue to vote for the party that passed UIGEA
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
You continue to vote for the party that passed UIGEA
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
You continue to vote for the party that passed UIGEA
unreal that the thread wasnt locked after this post as the discussion should've ended there
Wakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 08:03 AM   #147
yeSpiff
old hand
 
yeSpiff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: ungovernable ski bum
Posts: 1,294
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Hi MM

lol

Best wishes,
yeSpiff
yeSpiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 08:28 AM   #148
Parlay Slow
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Parlay Slow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,050
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Since low taxes and minimal regulation are the two most important things to a healthy poker economy then the best games should be in the 3rd world where both conditions can be found in abundance.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Parlay Slow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 08:31 AM   #149
Money2Burn
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Misreading your post.
Posts: 11,769
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

Mason, in your op you mention numerous regulations had been eliminated that will benefit the Poker economy. What regulations specifically were you referring to and how will each benefit the economy?
Money2Burn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 10:18 AM   #150
TrollyWantACracker
veteran
 
TrollyWantACracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 3,113
Re: Is the Trump Economy Good for Poker?

In my experience, players with little money tend to be overly tight and easy for me to exploit. The last 13 months I have actually found that the vast sums of money flowing into 3-6 holdem is ruining my win-rate.
TrollyWantACracker is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online