The Tragic Death of Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman, Responsible Gun Owner - Page 4 - Politics and Economics

Listen to the dude's 911 call. There's probably a reason. (I mean it's an inference we're drawing here, but it's a more informed and sensible one that what you're suggesting).

03-19-2012 , 05:28 PM

#77

ikestoys

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dids

Listen to the dude's 911 call. There's probably a reason. (I mean it's an inference we're drawing here, but it's a more informed and sensible one that what you're suggesting).

Look at the facts of the case, there's clearly been some sort of physical confrontation between the two. The case is simply more complicated than kid walks into 711, kid walks out, kid gets shot.

Even racists don't commonly kill someone without some sort of reason beyond skin color. Something happened between the two. Unfortunately, only Zimmerman really knows the full story.

03-19-2012 , 05:31 PM

#78

Omar Comin

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Yes, racists these days are very rational people.

03-19-2012 , 05:35 PM

#79

ikestoys

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Omar Comin

Yes, racists these days are very rational people.

No one is saying they are. No one is saying that the reason is valid. I'm saying that there's some sort of reason and it's very unlikely the kid simply walked into and out of a 711 and got shot.

03-19-2012 , 05:46 PM

#80

Omar Comin

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Quote:

Martin, a Miami native, was visiting his father in Sanford and watching the NBA All-Star game at a house in a gated Sanford community, the Retreat at Twin Lakes. At halftime, Martin walked out to the nearby 7-Eleven to get some Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea. On his return trip, he drew the attention of Zimmerman, who was patrolling the neighborhood in a sport-utility vehicle and called 911 to report "a real suspicious guy."

Read about how the NRA pushed for the right to pack heat anywhere in America.
"This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something," Zimmerman told the dispatcher. "It's raining, and he's just walking around looking about." The man tried to explain where he was. "Now he's coming towards me. He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male...Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is...These *******s, they always get away."

After discussing his location with the dispatcher, Zimmerman exclaimed, "**** he's running," and the following sounds suggest he left his vehicle to run after Martin.

"Are you following him?" the dispatcher asked. Zimmerman replied: "Yep."

"Okay, we don't need you to do that," the dispatcher warned.

Several minutes later, according to other callers to 911 in the neighborhood, Zimmerman and Martin got into a wrestling match on the ground. One of the pair could be heard screaming for help. Then a single shot rang out, and Martin lay dead.

You're right, they wrestled first and then the guy shot him.

03-19-2012 , 05:48 PM

#81

rjoefish

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Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Or we could get rid of stuff like some city commissioner making $150k/year, getting to goose up his overtime and use all his vacation pay in the same year and thus retire at age 55 at $232k per year for life. Crazy talk I know.

That should be fairly easy as they wouldn't be union.

03-19-2012 , 05:49 PM

#82

Trolly McTrollson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Omar Comin

Yes, racists these days are very rational people.

Hey, all I'm saying is that that there's some sort of reason the kids in that Jewish school in France got attacked, and it's very unlikely that they were simply sitting in class and got shot.

Seriously though, how is it this guy is able to carry a gun when he has a history of battery on a cop?

03-19-2012 , 05:51 PM

#83

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

No one is saying they are. No one is saying that the reason is valid. I'm saying that there's some sort of reason and it's very unlikely the kid simply walked into and out of a 711 and got shot.

Guys maybe we're being too hard on ikes here. It might seem like he's really invested in making sure we aren't so hasty in our rush to judgment that we forget to blame the victim of a hate crime...

But you gotta remember, ikes doesn't read articles. He probably doesn't know that the shooter, George Zimmerman, looks like he's half Hispanic.

It's all just a big misunderstanding!

03-19-2012 , 05:51 PM

#84

[Phill]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Omar Comin

You're right, they wrestled first and then the guy shot him.

I bet if he could, with hindsight, he would change the way he ran away from a crazy guy whilst being black.

03-19-2012 , 05:51 PM

#85

Dids

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ikes,

Here's what we know-

He was walking, in his neighborhood, when a guy who seems somewhat obviously paranoid and likely racist saw him and decided he was suspicious. He called 911, ignored their advice, confronted the kid, they fought, the kid got shot.

You can listen to the 911 tapes and blame the kid, which you're functionally doing- or you can listen to the guy's words, his tone of voice etc, and hear the paranoia and fear and make some assumptions about the most obvious outcome.

03-19-2012 , 06:11 PM

#86

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dids

Yeah, again, point out where I'm blaming the victim. I'm not, and it's really ******ed to say so. This tangent started when Phil mocked a police officer for saying the kid would have done something different given a chance because he just walked out of a seven eleven. There's undoubtedly more to it then that.

What I'm actually doing is pointing out that the Phil said something dumb, when you say I'm functionally doing something you're just making up something you can argue against.

03-19-2012 , 06:13 PM

#87

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

If you're suggesting that there is more to it than walking out of a 7-11, you're implying that the guy did more to provoke the murderer than just walking out of a 7-11. That's the definition of blaming the victim.

03-19-2012 , 06:15 PM

#88

Dids

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ikes,

The posts where you blame the victim are the ones where you're blaming the victim.

Phil mocked the cop because the cop (mind you after his officers behaved unquestionably inappropriately in the aftermath of the situation) basically said "yeah, this is hard for all of us, even the dead kid".

03-19-2012 , 06:16 PM

#89

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

rjoefish egregious salary, pension or perk defense flow chart:

[Are they union?] --> <No> --> **** em
|
V
<Yes>
|
V
Perfectly reasonable

All I got for this is a lol suzzer.

03-19-2012 , 06:18 PM

#90

[Phill]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Yeah, but he ran away from the crazy armed guy who stalks his neighbourhood in the dark and sends racist emails to people plus when the crazy armed guy caught up to him he then proceeded to fight back in some way.

He clearly had it coming

03-19-2012 , 06:21 PM

#91

ikestoys

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Lol it's almost 100% he did more than simply walk out of a 7/11. That doesn't mean he got what he deserved, just that he would have done something differently if he had a chance.

Seriously, realizing that it's highly unlikely a victim wasnt perfect doesn't mean they are responsible for anything that happens to them.

03-19-2012 , 06:23 PM

#92

ikestoys

banned

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dids

ikes,

The posts where you blame the victim are the ones where you're blaming the victim.

$how your work.

Quote:

Phil mocked the cop because the cop (mind you after his officers behaved unquestionably inappropriately in the aftermath of the situation) basically said "yeah, this is hard for all of us, even the dead kid".

Yup and responded with something stupid.

03-19-2012 , 06:24 PM

#93

Trolly McTrollson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Lol it's almost 100% he did more than simply walk out of a 7/11.

I guess it would help if you could explain to the class how it is you know this.

03-19-2012 , 06:25 PM

#94

Omar Comin

fantasy failure

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 27,348

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Such a shame that a black kid decided to put his hands in his pocket, and ran IN THE RAIN. WHAT WAS HE THINKING??

03-19-2012 , 06:26 PM

#95

[Phill]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

"Wasnt perfect" implies he did something bad or negative. What did he do that was bad or negative?

03-19-2012 , 06:41 PM

#96

zikzak

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He ran away from the crazy guy with the gun. Totally his fault.

eta: ikes, have you even listened to the 911 call?

03-19-2012 , 07:08 PM

#97

Huehuecoyotl

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

He ran away from the crazy guy with the gun. Totally his fault.

eta: ikes, have you even listened to the 911 call?

I'm wondering what does Ikes think the guy could have done differently? Can't run away, he gets shot. Can't confront the guy he gets shot. Ikes decisión making tree on this has to be weird.