Yeah, you're probably right.

i mean talk about one of the most useless and ill-advised hills to die on

I think I found the perfect encapsulation of how a Democrat should act in this age of Trump, Gustavo Rivera of the New York State Senate.

This man did an interview on SiriusXM (John Fugelsang's show) on Friday and he did not pull punches. He said a lot of his Democratic colleagues are weak in that they do not push for the things people want because they are afraid of attack ads, called Trump a pile of ****, didn't self-censor, and seemed to "get it". He stated that deplorables are a lost cause and to not waste your time on them - they actively choose to be racist and bigoted, love will not change them.

I think he serves the Bronx, but it might be worth trying to find that interview to hear him speak. This is the kind of guy the base clamors for imo.

So? Most Bernie supporters also supported Clinton after the primary, but that didn't stop a wave of butthurt about those who didn't.

And you’re trying to carry on the butthurt torch?

Sure, why not? Clinton supporters have clearly said this lack of party unity is something we need to be VERY CONCERNED about.

I guess the “What Centrist Dems do is terrible” to “Hey What we’re doing is ok because centrists dems did it” phase change is underway.

LOL this dude is definitely voting for Trump in 2020

Centrist Democrats supporting the Republican governor of MD (Larry Hogan) over Ben Jealous shouldn't be extrapolated to mean anything on the national level. If you're upset about it because you want Jealous to win and so you would prefer he gets as much support as possible, OK. But any other explanation is just ignorant of MD politics. Hogan almost certainly represents Maryland voters more closely than Jealous, despite being a Republican in a blue state.

He's not disenfranchising voters, he's not getting any high ratings from the NRA, he's not involved in any scandals. He's a respected and effective governor. He's more to the left on most issues than some of the centrist Democrats supporting him and some of the centrist Democrats who were trying to win the Democratic primary to challenge him. The only thing that makes him a Republican are his business friendly policies which aren't even that extreme. The Democratic base in MD is a coalition of people who generally support Democrats because they live in multicultural neighborhoods and find typical Republican policies abhorrent to their communities and upper middle class types who don't mind paying more taxes in exchange for policies that restrict development (think like a desire for a statewide HOA). The centrist Democrat politicians in office that give the impression of a super blue state would be running as Republicans if they could win with an R next to their name.

There's not a lot of support for the progressive policies that Jealous wants. His health insurance plan won't make it through the legislature and his minimum wage hike isn't a lock either. So when centrist Democrats support Hogan over Jealous the response shouldn't be "omg how ridiculous" it should be "well yeah that makes sense."

i think saying "well yeah that makes sense" shows people dont understand the state that we are in wrt to Trumpian politics. you can not trust republicans to not push trump politics. so all the "well he represents things i might want as a centrist dem" are crap, he's gonna get in and he's gonna push pro-trump agendas almost guaranteed.

Hogan is already in, he's the sitting governor. He's opposed nearly every Trump policy and there's no reason to believe he'd be any different in his second term. That kind of analysis is exactly what I'm talking about.

i know he's in. i know he has high approval ratings, because there wasnt a strong democrat challenger for a long time. i wouldn't say that i've seen him oppose any of trump's policies in a strong way. i've spent the summer in delaware hearing nothing but attack ads against ben jealous saying he's a socialist, so i'm in the area.

i dont know where the anti-trump republican is coming from, im not from maryland so i'm sure you have more local knowledge than i do, but from what i've seen his opinion on policies are at best not awful.

-he's against immigration,
-he believes in some background checks for guns,
-he personally doesn't believe in gay marriage but isnt opposed to protecting them, but opposes transgender rights bill
-he was for the tax cuts and thinks that trickle down exists, (need less burden on the "job creators",
-vetoed a bill to allow ex-felons to vote
-pro higher minimum sentencing
-is pro-charter school

like i said not horrible like trump level horrible, but not something the democrats should be pushing instead of jealous. and when i say that i mean the democrat politicians, they should one hundred percent be a united front.

eta- if they are supporting him because he makes them a few extra bucks that's fine. but i disagree that he pushed democrat policies, or that he isn't trump like in any noticeable fashion other than he's maybe seen the light on pushing pro-environment policies.

Who would have guessed

How on earth does it cost 32 trillion?

iirc from other links that have been posted - the $32T figure replaces what we currently spend on private healthcare, which is currently more than that? In other words, it's measuring an increase in government spending on healthcare while omitting the corresponding decrease in private healthcare spending.

3.2 trillion a year for ten years.
currently spending at lowest estimates- 3.3 trillion per year on healthcare

So UK spend 124 Billion on UHC for ~70M people (less but rounding up for ease of comparison).

Pop of USA is ~5 times bigger (less but yadda yadda etc)

Is 620 Billion the same as 32 trillion?

re: Hogan/Jealous in Maryland

It's pretty ****ing shameful that MD/VT/MA all have Republican governors. I don't care what they believe, they are part of a piece of ****, racist party. Democrats who vote for them are pathetic.

IL too. I first read about Bruce Rauner reading up on the Janus case (he filed the first lawsuits against public sector unions that led to the Janus lawsuit), so uh, thanks for that Illinois.

i believe the argument that it will cost more is that, reductions in prices through better negotiating power aren't included in the US number. the UK has already negotiated down drug prices and procedure prices through being the only negotiating partner the companies have. The US study has not estimated in how much the plan would save once they could force the pharma companies to the negotiating table.

atleast that's what i believe i read. i also saw somewhere that another 800 billion could come off that number from negotiating drug prices.

I think there's some The West Wing syndrome here again. Some Democrats LOVE the idea they can tell their friends that they voted for a Republican once or twice. See, I'm not a partisan!

No such person exists on the other side. I can't tell you how many times my Republican mother in-law used the phrase "hold her nose" to describe her Hillary vote. Good for her that Trump was a bridge too far, but it's instructive of the difference in mindset.

There is whatever this is, West Virginia in 2012:

Romney (R): 418k
Obama (D): 238k

Raese (R): 238k
Manchin (D): 395k

...but it does seem quite rare. At a quick glance, Montana and Louisiana are the only reliable red states with Dem governors, while there's ~5 in the other direction (NM, IL, MD, VT, MA, and that's leaving out MI/WI which I guess you can't call "reliably blue" anymore and NV which you can't _yet_ give that label to)

Yeah I'm oversimplifying obviously, and I could very well just be wrong. But I think there's something to the idea that a real percentage of Democrats take glee in voting for "moderate" Republicans once in a while.

I don't know anything about WV politics but I'm skeptical the Rs that vote for Manchin are bragging about it to their friends over dinner.