In the current state of affairs, it might be you and Max who are undermining the Democratic Party. People like you and Max may very well get left behind. Bernie Sanders really was the start of something and made AOC possible.

I don't think this is some temporary reactionary moment like when Obama got elected because of Bush II. This has been brewing for a long time now, sort of like how publicly admitted racism has been silent or mumbled under breath up until President Trump's election. Trump catalyzed the openness of racism that was always there to begin with, but never aired. Hijacked the Republican Party in the process. Sanders catalyzed the revolution that may now very well hijack the Democratic Party. Hell, he almost did it himself singlehandedly in the last election cycle.

Maybe. If electing Bernie acolytes is what it takes to stop Trump, that's fine. Trump has certainly radicalized the Democratic Piarty, maybe Schumer will have to push leftist stuff to turn out the base, where he did not before.

The Democratic party, despite having overwhelming popularity advantages on nearly every single policy, has control of zero branches of the federal government and has allowed the GOP to control a majority of the states.

The only way to square the centrist track record of defeat with the bizarre way they act like their method produced electoral success is to understand they aren't that for them, it did. The defeat of Bernie prevented policies they absolutely fervently opposed. The subsequent election of Trump and loss of the Senate, House, 30 governors, etc... they're more or less fine with how that turned out.

Exactly!! They'd rather lose to a Republican, no matter how despicable he is, than win with a progressive candidate.

And it’s not all that hard to get full throated support from the party. Just win primaries. It’s not like I won’t vote for Nixon in the general
if she wins her primary.

rather live in sht than use a shovel

The people defending this line of thinking for the at least 40 years that I've paid attention to politics are what has destroyed the Democratic party and caused huge numbers of voters to forever abandon ship.

You guys are way overestimating how many people agree with you. Obama is still the all time leading vote getter in American history and still could beat anybody in an election.

He also turned out to be a ****ty steward of the party who presided over huge, devastating losses in Congress and in state houses around the country. And you present him as, like, the best case scenario. Yikes.

Try reading the post you quote. I’m only presenting him as someone who would flat out get the most votes which is (and was) true and calls directly into question the crazy ship jumping narrative. Obviously I don’t really care who you think would be a great steward for the party and don’t wish to discuss it with you.

It's amazing how closely you resemble the aristocratic prig character in Victorian novels that the heroine is betrothed to in the first few chapters before meeting the romantic hero.

He wants to continue being an oblivious upper middle class white guy who benefits from all the GOP bull****, but also wants credit for not being a POS. Sorry bro, not how it works, and you aren't fooling anyone.

It doesn't matter how progressive you are or how much you despise the Democratic Party, the only way to effect a political change in America is through the political party.

Of course that doesn't mean supporting the status quo. People forget but Conservatives originally were a movement without a party. They decided to work through and take over the Republican Party and now they're thoroughly connected.

The same can happen with Progressives. They can run as Democrats, knock off blue incumbents, take over the party apparatus, etc. It won't be quick or easy but it can be done.

Of course part of that will be resisting the "don't talk ill of another Democrat" that gets pulled to try and maintain the status quo. Reagan said don't speak ill of another Republican but he did more than just about anyone else, but he did it about Republicans who the Conservative movement was taking over, not fellow travelers.

Pointing to the first black guy ever elected to the office who explicitly ran to the left of the Democrat establishment may not be making the point you want to make.

Yes it does. Again, don’t care whether you think Obama is a centrist stooge or a leftist hero. His popularity independent of anything else strongly cuts against the claim that huge numbers of people are jumping off the Democratic ship never to return.

Your analysis is all over the place. Your standard argument is about political competence and you should just conclude that Obama was an extremely competent campaigner. Now apparently people still liking Obama is the result not of his political competence, or perceived leftist positions, or centrist stooginess. It's party loyalty now?

And yeah, right, it's really clear that you don't care what anyone thinks.

I think he’s telling us we need to be sure to primary the unelectable DNC establishment nominee like we did in 2008.

When it comes to anyone questioning centrist D establishment, Max suddenly becomes ikes and will invent whatever reasoning is necessary to support his current claim no matter how difficult it is to square with any kind of logical principles

It doesn't have that much to do with his 'centrism' imo. He's a misanthropic elitist troll and he just wants to say he hates progressives in exactly the way Trumpkins talk about 'libruls'. It's 100% of his posting in politics. The foundation of it, as with many Trumpkins, is taking offense over the suggestion, whether openly stated or implied, that it's possible to be more ethical or compassionate. His posts are the equivalent of the guy who says he'll order two hamburgers just because someone he was with ordered a veggieburger.

Funny. I thought the dude ikesing would the the one not bothering to understand what’s being discussed and instead resorting to general potshots.

"Next county exec" is a bit premature. The establishment is having a s***fit seeing as how the business friendly former Republican candidate turned "Democrat" lost the primary. On top of the race almost definitely going into a recount, another "centrist" Dem is planning on leaving the party to run as an independent, which may not even be legal, but if allowed would siphon off a lot of votes, possibly enough to win, or maybe just throw the race to the Republican candidate. Just another reminder that the Democratic party would rather sabotage itself than let progressive ideas gain any traction.

Obama wasn't a progressive, but he convinced a lot of people that he was, and that had a lot to do with why they got off their asses and voted for him. Also a lot of people thought it important to finally have a black president.

"Change we can believe in" sums it up - people could project whatever they want on Obama - and a lot of the more progressive element did and voted for him.

Schumer types explicitly reject such projection and try to drive those voters away. They aggressively alienate them.

I'm sure your boy Trump is going to take care of it...