Fly's tactics have had little effect on me other than to cause me to start questioning and looking further into what the actual policies of the Democratic party are and the effects they produce. There's not a doubt in my mind that Democrats > Republicans by many order of magnitudes on social issues. Not so sure anymore on fiscal issues.

My main argument is that tactics like his have fractured the Democratic party and allowed Trump's rise to power by seizing on identity politics. Now Democrats have lost much of their footing in the march towards racial, gender, and economic equality as people turn a blind eye, new racists are born, and current ones become emboldened. It's results I'm interested in. As long as we're moving in the right direction towards equality (which we were), that's all I'm really interested in. I'm not gonna die on the same hill as you guys quibbling over identities.

OK, how about you start by no longer opposing racial equality?

OK but like, as recently as one post ago and again later in this post you say Dems play too much identity politics instead of focusing on class. That's a right wing strawman, of course, but WHAT? If the Democrats of Hillary Rodham Clinton are too far left on social issues and too far left on fiscal issues, my dude, you're just a Republican.

Nope! Your main argument is that I hurt your feelings and you want it to stop.

This is a real common right wing attack from the alt-right and alt-lite types that Lestat clearly exclusively learns about the world from, but digging deep, what the **** is he even talking about? Who is quibbling over identities, and what is an example of what "quibbling over identities" even means?

P.S.
Lestat this is 100% the best advice you will get in this thread. I know what you're thinking is that "Wookie is lying about me, I'm passionate about racial equality!!!"

But he's not lying. And you're not lying. You're just wrong. You, because of an exclusively hard right media diet that you think is centrist or leftist, don't realize it, but like every ****ing view you have on race is absolutely reprehensible. When we tell you that you're racist, we're not calling you a liar(I mean, you are a liar, but not about this, you really sincerely believe your own horse**** here), we're CORRECTING YOU. You're so sheltered in a bubble of Rubin Reports and Milo Youtubes that you don't have any ****ing idea how non-racists talk about this ****.

Has this dumbass ****face line ever actually worked?


"Oh so everybody who disagrees with you is a white supremacist, huh, HUH?!?"

"No, not if we're talking about who should win the NBA MVP, or if the film It Comes At Night was too opaque in presenting its plot points, or any other of the infinite amount of topics to disagree about, but if we're talking about the supremacy of the white race, then yes! Wtf is wrong with your brain?"

Because, that's literally how stupid it is but the people stupid enough to run with it are obviously too stupid to realize how stupid it is. That's why the right-wing derposphere is so successful.

I mean, it works for their team. The next time a racist who ate a ban for racism says that the ban was for anything other than disagreeing with me will be the first.

But they've gotten so high off their own supply they seem to have forgotten (or maybe never learned) they can only say it to each other, because they'll never ask each other the blatantly obvious followup, "Well, uh, what specifically were you disagreeing about?"

I mean, they seem to think it will work in ATF all the damn time.





It's never worked.

Yeah, IRL is one thing but to think it would work online, where the posts are saved, I mean, ****...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect

Can you please provide an example of where I opposed racial equality? Have I been sleep posting? Because I'd be very disappointed in myself if I did. What's more likely is that I said something that you mistook for me being against racial equality because it didn't align perfectly with your views.

This is what I mean about you guys. You can't even have an honest conversation around here. You'd have people mistake me for being a Trump voter even though I'm on record as saying I'd have voted to put a spoon in the oval office for the next 4 years, instead of Trump. But I didn't gush over Hillary as much as you thought a REAL Democrat should. I called her a typical dishonest and insincere politician. You didn't like that, so you lie and accuse me of voting for Trump. Nice.

But I'm serious about your accusation of my opposing racial equality. If I ever did say something to that effect, I'd like to clear it up.

I'm not gonna lie. I was in this camp, but still pulled the lever for HRC because it was ultimately the right thing to do to prevent a Trump presidency. In a way, I kind of do think the whole **** house needs to go up in flames. Why? Because I can sit here and cite Sanders' talking points all day long. He had the REAL message. He had the REAL platform for change! How could any real liberal not agree with every ****ing thing that came out of his mouth? And now his agenda doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of being accomplished through either the Democratic or certainly not the Republican party. Instead of offense, we're playing defense and will be lucky to stop half of Trump and the GOP's evil agendas.

So a lot of my disdain is because I think Sanders got ****ed by the Democratic party and MSM. Even supposed liberals who I normally love listening to like Rachel Maddow was clearly against Sanders for HRC. That also made me think WTF is going on here? How could MADDOW not be for everything Sanders said and stood for? It got me thinking... The system is rigged. It's corrupt. And maybe it does need to be blown up and started over from scratch.

Lol. Can't even see the hypocrisy coming out of your own fingers.

None of us here had Hillary as an ideal candidate and you ****ing know it. But in a matter of DEGREES, Hillary was a million miles ahead of Trump. So saying "Hillary is just like all other dishonest politicians" you are directly drawing a connection to get being as bad as Trump, seeing as he was running for president, you know, a politician.

What a waste of ****ing space

trump isn't a politician though

he's a dishonest businessman


interesting that "the two are the same" and "hate for the two is the same" are... so similar?

So you side with my friend who said it's impossible to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative?

You spend enough time responding to my posts that you should seriously reconsider what my argument really is and what I'm trying to get at. Do you honestly think I care about my feelings being hurt on this forum? And if so, why would I continue giving you guys so much ammunition to do it? The answer is, I care passionately about the racial inequality that continues to exist in this country. I care deeply about the poor, the elderly, and the sick. And I think how we treat these people is the means of how we measure the worth of a society.

But our society as it is, falls far short on these matters, doesn't it? We've let these groups down time and time again. We just have different views on a). What the root cause of these problems are, and b). Why they persist.

It would be great if we could snap our fingers or shout at people loud enough and alakazam! No one is a racist anymore! But that still wouldn't solve anything. Why? Because as is shown, society would still lack empathy for blacks and minorities for the very same reasons there is no empathy for the sick, the disabled, the children who are poor, or the elderly who are poor.

Well, we'd have to overlook the countless times you've called me liar, but I've never said I can't be wrong. I might be wrong on a lot of things. These are complex issues and I'll concede you are much more versed and eloquent on the topics of racism and politics in general than I am. But i like evidence. I like facts and truth. But I have a very difficult time seeing whatever truth and facts you present in the midst of all the hyperbole you like to spout.

You're giving me far more credit than I deserve. If I truly am spouting off pitch perfect right wing media points I must be pretty goddamn smart not having read a single right wing media blog. I'm incorrectly coming up with wrong **** on my own that conservatives spend their life work coming up with.

Don't even know what a Rubin Report is and I've watched like two Milo YouTube videos. You're obviously well versed on both sides to know both conservative and liberal media. I'm not even sure I know what the Democratic platform is (I thought I did). I'm pretty much to politics how Dawkins refers to atheists. I'm more a cat that thinks independently and can't be herded so easily. But what exactly are you correcting me on? That you can't be for lowering corporate taxes and some regulations while still being socially liberal? That you can't be against racism, while trying to understand why some Trump voters had issues more concerning to them that they incorrectly overlooked his racism? That you can't commend Kaepernick for having the courage to protest while understanding why owners might not want to alienate a portion of their fan base and roster a backup QB who might become a distraction to the team? Yeah, I'm guilty at trying to see both sides of all these issues and I don't land as hard on your side as you'd like me to so therefore I'm an irredeemable Trump voting racist?

I come on here so I have a very good idea how you non-racists talk about this ****. It's agree with everything we say or you're a piece of **** racist. I don't always agree with you though. So once again, I'm an irredeemable racist. I was privately PM'd by a poster who warned that "they ban people who don't agree with their views'. My response was that I've been posting on the 2p2 forums for +10 years. I would hope the forum owners DS and MM would have my back. I've always tried to be respectful until someone is rude to me. I come here to learn and lord knows I've been wrong a ton and have changed many of my views on things. Maybe I'll come around to your way of thinking eventually. But you gotta hit me with more facts and data and less hyperbole.

So you are admitting that the Democrats couldn't put up an ideal candidate who couldn't beat an in experienced, incompetent like Trump and yet, still blame me for thinking maybe the Democratic party isn't what it's cracked up to be?

And there was just a post about Feinstein. Isn't SHE the DEM who tried to oppress Sanders and his voters? There's another member of our great Democratic party.

Right. That's why I voted for her. A teapot would've been a million miles ahead of Trump.


I'm drawing the connection between HRC and Feinstein if she was in fact, the one who tried to sabotage Sanders in favor of Clinton.

I had the feeling most of the MSM people were for HRC, but I thought Rachel was pretty pro-Bernie.

You opposed Colin Kaepernick speaking up about racial equality. You opposed shaming Donald Sterling for being racist.

and some oppose reasonable, somewhat civil debate alongside active protest and positive engagement.

Even though they are misguided it would be unreasonable to accuse them of opposing racial equality. I appreciate that is only a concern for those who believe in the being reasonable part of the method.

I confess that although Sanders is much closer to me politically, I preferred Clinton as the candidate as I found it hard to imagine the USA voting for someone who can be tagged as a socialist. Beating trump (or Cruz who was more of the scary prospect back then) was so important it over-rode my general view to always support the person we actually want. Not that I get to vote but the USA matters to all of us.

Blaming it purely on people being racist would be stupid - big factor without a doubt but the democrats need to concentrate on the electorates legitimate concerns that can be addressed - move left and keep working at selling their policies across the divide. Force the republicans to move towards the centre.

see any post you've ever made about BLM, for starters

This is what me mean, holy ****. This is direct right wing talking point. Thsi is GOP screed to the T. They want you to feel cheated even though no cheating happened. They want you to fear the MSM, even though thats ****ing bull****, and you swallowed it like a large mouth bass. You fall into every talking point put across the Fox headlines, and somehow we are all just supposed to say "no, yeah, its ok. You're a super liberal and just doing the right thing because Bernie got robbed."

You know what? I voted for Bernie in the primary, and when he lost, completely and totally fairly, I pulled up my big boy panties and went out to my community, and went onto the internet, and said "Hey, lets ****ing rally together and pull the lever for Hillary, BECAUSE ITS THE RIGHT ****ING THING TO DO."

YOU, on the other hand, along with thousands of other Bernie Bros, swallowed the ****ing Fox hook, went out to your communities and the internet, and bitched and moaned and ****ing cried that "Oh, Ill vote for her, but I cant believe I have to. Shes such an evil witch, its terrible that we have to vote for one of these two completely corrupt evil awful people. But I will guys, I totally will, because its what I should do, but I feel really really bad about it seeing as how shes super corrupt, and stole the election from Bernie, and whatabout her emails, and whatabout Benghaziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii." And you were just a ****ing puppet for the GOP for 5 ****ing months, and you don't get to come here and say that WE were the ****ing reason that you decided to vote for the Republicans in perpetuity going forward, because it wasnt ****ing us. It was because you were a child who got your toy taken away, and couldnt do the adult ****ing thing of shutting your mouth, and cheering on the person who would have been 8095487945370974534539743 times better for this country than what we ended up with because she wasnt the shiny new ****ing toy you were drooling over at the store shelf, and instead was a hand me down from your older brother. So you looked at the hand me down, and you looked at the pile of cat **** in the corner and were told to pick one to play with, and you moaned and cried and said THESE TWO THINGS ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME! WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH! And now you're covered in cat ****.

YOU made the decision to act like a child. Dont ****ing pin it on anyone else.

LOL chezlaw just both sidesed "swearing" and "explicitly supporting white supremacy". The great thing about these people is that if you yell at them long enough they'll end up explicitly saying what they complain is a strawman lie like 95% of the time.

master- Lestat is not a Bernie Bro. Bernie Bros are left wing. He's doing a bit that a few other right wingers have done, they signal positive **** about Bernie because he didn't get the nomination as a concern troll because they think it makes their Trump vote the result of "independent thinking".

Hey I wonder what it is about Diane Feinstein and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz that would make Lestat confuse them for one another. HMMMMMMMMMMMM

But yeah, totally would've voted for Bernie.


Donald Trump talked about Sanders getting cheated more than Sanders did, so yep, once again Lestat is explicitly echoing Trump stump speeches. Just like he does about crime, race, Muslims, the economy, and the system in general.

This is why it's so hard for people to believe you voted for Clinton! You keep on vaguely saying you oppose Trump in the abstract but on every ****ing issue you and he see eye to eye.

Well, he sees eye to, uh, words. Trump has no positions other than loving Putin and nazis.