"Seemed like the left was doing so well and so strong just a few years ago."

Maybe in a sports analogy, they all got old at once? I mean, Bernie is 75 and Hillary is 69 - Biden is 74. Just thinking about it, the number of rising stars in the Dem party seems slim - or have they just made too many litmus tests for a up-and-comer- to pass satisfactorily? Dunno.

MM MD

Dems are in trouble because they don't make much of an effort to compete at the state and local levels, outside of urban areas. If you live outside of one of the major cities you'd scarcely know there was a Democratic party outside of presidential elections.

Voter ID shenanigans have almost made what were formerly solidly blue states (PA, WI, MI) into toss ups.

rofl this is a GOAT performance we're all getting to watch here

Lol yeah, I was wondering if the family trash was taken out with anti Semitic chants and tiki torches.

By 'effort' you mean they don't have a network of billionaires spending $1B/year on it.

I get the fact that it's the Kochs and the Mercers of the world who are backing these Rs financially, and the Dems don't really have an equivalent, but they aren't even running candidates in a lot of places. In November there was a Republican candidate running for state senate in Pennsylvania unopposed. That's far too high an office to simply punt and not even try.

The democratic party has not changed much in the last forty years so im not sure why you would stop being one if your and their views have not.

Could you give an example of a democratic policy that has changed so they no longer fit you?

You shouldn't direct this criticism towards Democratic Party leadership, but towards Democratic voters or liberal and progressives more generally. I doubt PA party leaders are stopping anyone from running there. The problem is that running for office is expensive and unpleasant and it is hard to find people willing to do it when they have no chance of winning. Running for office should be viewed as admirable public service, but you aren't going to make very many friends right now running as a Democrat in GOP country (or vice versa).

It's not just that they have little chance of winning, it's that winning doesn't really get you anything anyway. It's different in every state, but in lots of them state senate pays less than $30k, so it really limits who can run (and imo drastically favors one party over the other).

I don't mean this to be about people who lose what they consider their job to a minority.

It's a general dissatisfaction among many people about their economic situation. Some of the dissatisfaction is justified but they cast blame at immigration, NAFTA etc without any reasonable justification that that's the cause.

Not long ago the right looked almost dead. It's a commonly exaggerated perception. It's very rare that a major party dies.

It also seems so much more difficult to get anything done than it used to. Because of that I'm not sure those able and willing to change things are as attracted to politics as they used to be. Plus they know the ****storm from their own side as well as the other side that they will have to endure and waste time on. Maybe the question we should be asking is why would anyone go into politics?

One thing that can be done is stop it being expensive.

You guys are straight up the most intellectually dishonest group of people I've ever encountered. If this is the new way Dems present their side, it's another reason I want no part of it.

What position have I ever staked out that is in line with Trump? Because I don't think every person who voted for him is a racist? Then Bernie Sanders must've secretly pulled the lever for Trump too, right? That I think lowering the corporate tax rate is a good idea? Then Mark Cuban is a closet Trumpkin as well.

lol. do you think mark cuban favors lowering corporate tax rate because it will create jobs/stimulate the economy, or because it will make him a bunch of extra money as the owner of numerous corporations?

"intellectually dishonest", lol you're projecting again

non-right winger lestat, going hard for trickle down economics like it hasn't failed every time it's been put into practice

Appearances are deceiving, aren't they? The right was never dead! The difference is that the conservative party in this country never waivers in towing the line. They never fracture. Their message sucks, but they stick with it and together they are relentless at pounding away at it.

The Democratic party IS fractured perhaps beyond repair if they don't get their **** together quick. Bernie Sanders should've been the 2016 Democratic nominee. It's all a guessing game now, but I think he easily would've beaten Trump. Why? Because he actually had a message and platform to deliver. The DNC simply anointed HRC and when Trump won the nomination they were licking their chops. The message was: You gotta vote for her because otherwise, Trump!

And in their boundless capacity for stupidity they still can't figure out how HRC lost so they blame it on the fact that all American whites are racists.

mother****er dont even act like you werent advocating a major plank of their platform like 1 post ago.

more white grievance republican talking points

I mean Lestat sincerely appears to DISAGREE with Clinton's platform so her messaging about it better probably wouldn't have helped.

This dude literally drops "Democratic leadership has turned Chicago into a war zone" and "Dems think all white people are racist" and "corporations are taxed too highly and have too much government oversight", but what, Clinton should've held more rallies about subsidized college to get his vote?

You agree with their message SO STRONGLY that you think hard right views are the conventional wisdom and get blown away by the liberal overreach of even centrist positions on healthcare and race.

It's completely incoherent.

P.S. Having completely incoherent vaguely right wing public policy views wedded to very strong white resentment cultural views is like, the ****ing archtypical Trump voter.

This is a serious discussion I'd like to have perhaps in another thread. But first, corporate tax rates are different than individual tax rates. Do you think it's a good thing that companies like Burger King team up with Tim Hortons and simply move to Canada in order to avoid US corporate taxes and then go after other American companies like Popeyes? Is that good or bad for American companies and workers?

The fact is, that economical issues such as this, along with separating health insurances companies with medical care (they ARE two separate industries, or should be) are at the heart of something we both care about and that's the inequality of the economically disadvantaged that (I think) gets tied up with racism.

To be clear: I never said there aren't racists in this country or that racism isn't still a huge problem. I just think that some of the answers to racial inequality lie within economic solutions where politicians and government set the policies. I'm under no delusions that the rich have been rigging the system for years and want to continue rigging it under the GOP platform.

But the Dems are not blameless and current policies don't seem to be helping the poor and the disparity in wealth continues to grow wider and wider. We can either:

1). Take matters into our own hands and show up armed with guns to the houses of the crooks who stole our money under a rigged system and demand or steal it back if we have to.

2). Go balls out socialism, which I and many progressives would be fine with, but I doubt enough others would.

3). Take some power away from government, lobbyists, and special interests.

I'd like to get different perspectives point by point including Fly's dishonest recount of what I said about Obamacare.

If that is the reason and not policy changes its a piss poor one.

I never said that. I pointed out that Chicago is run by Dems and yet impoverished areas have remained impoverished and they have one of the most racist police departments in the country. I asked if Dems are so good with racial equality, why would that be?

You're the one who seems to be saying this because how else did Trump win again?

Clinton still got my vote dude. Sorry that's such an annoying pebble in your shoe.

Define hard right. Years ago I mentioned to a very bright woman that I was fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. She told me that's impossible. I thought she was wrong until meeting 2p2 Politics and people like you. I guess it IS impossible.

I don't resent anything. I simply disagree that every Trump voter is a racist and I think all your white shaming well before the election caused some Dems who were fed up anyway to say **** you and vote Trump to blow up the system and other Dems not to turn out. Oh, and I suppose HRC not being all that exciting also played a role in the low Dem turnout.

Why is it piss poor to want Dems to stick together? What better way is there to accomplish common goals?

I'm definitely not saying that people like Fly are gong to get me to change who I vote for. But I'm an independent now. I'm NOT voting a straight Democratic ticket anymore. I felt good about doing that in the past because I thought Democrats most aligned with my views. But I refuse to call every white person who voted for Trump a racist. I'll call them an unthinking moron, but racist is too harsh of a term in my mind for someone I consider just ignorant on racial issues. Not recognizing white privilege does not equal racist to me. I've had many conversations with people who presented what I felt was a racist view, but didn't realize it. After explaining why it was, most were like, Oh, okay I never though of that. These people are not racist imo and many others overlooked similar racist views in order to vote for Trump.

Um... you said the people here are an intellectually dishonest group and that is one of your reasons for leaving the dems. Its a piss poor reason.

LOL the GOAT continues