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Old 11-12-2016, 08:28 PM   #451
Paul D
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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Originally Posted by Lapidator View Post

The gnashing of teeth over the EC by the folks who buried the popular candidate in their own party.

You shouldn't say stuff like that lol

Spoiler:
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Old 11-12-2016, 08:36 PM   #452
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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Do you not get that he doesn't think the Constitution is some holy document?

He stated something to that effect.
Yeah. I understand that it's hard to change and it should be hard to change. If I had my druthers though, that's a change I'd make.
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Old 11-12-2016, 08:38 PM   #453
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

I'm SMPing this whole argument totally outside of what happened this election.
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Old 11-12-2016, 08:41 PM   #454
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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I do not concede that the EC is a bad thing. I think it is a brilliant compromise agreed to by people who were orders of magnitude smarter then I.
They were good at fractions, like three divided by five.
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Old 11-12-2016, 08:41 PM   #455
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

I can see both sides of the coin and don't put much thought into it because it won't happen in my lifetime.
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Old 11-12-2016, 08:45 PM   #456
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

And like I said in a previous post, it's my 1 1-billionth of a say of who gets in the senate instead of my 1 200-millionth. I'm not getting too worked up about it.

Besides, I've lived in small states before and I may live in one again after my kids fly the coop. Then I'll own the senate.
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Old 11-12-2016, 08:51 PM   #457
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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Biden vs. Trump: Who you voting for?
It wouldn't matter. He would weep with joy no matter who won.
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Old 11-12-2016, 08:57 PM   #458
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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Ok. Well, that's not how our system works.

But luckily for you, the system can be changed. I suggest if you feel this strongly about it, you look into supporting a movement to amend the Constitution to remove the structure of representation.

Let us know when you get the legislatures of 33 states to agree. I'm guessing you'll get... 10... but that shouldn't stop you from trying.

Perhaps you'll get 12 or 13 if you come up with a good compromise offer.

You are familiar with compromise right? That's that thing where you give up something, in order to get something?
It doesn't take a constitutional amendment to effectively nullify the electoral college. It technically could be done with just the biggest 13 or so states. They won't all agree to band together and ensure the popular vote winner is the EC winner, but they do have that power as granted by the constitution
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Old 11-12-2016, 09:01 PM   #459
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

I see both sides of argument for popular vote and electoral college.

As a cannuck can anyone explain to me if there is any good behind the super delegate system? It seems to messed up when before primaries even began Clinton had them all locked up.
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Old 11-12-2016, 09:09 PM   #460
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Minimize the chances of having George McGovern becoming the leader of your party.
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Old 11-12-2016, 09:33 PM   #461
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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As a cannuck can anyone explain to me if there is any good behind the super delegate system? It seems to messed up when before primaries even began Clinton had them all locked up.
Depends on whether you are part of the winning faction.
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Old 11-12-2016, 10:04 PM   #462
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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Minimize the chances of having George McGovern becoming the leader of your party.
Counterpoint: Hillary Clinton becomes the leader of your party.
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Old 11-12-2016, 10:52 PM   #463
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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It doesn't take a constitutional amendment to effectively nullify the electoral college. It technically could be done with just the biggest 13 or so states. They won't all agree to band together and ensure the popular vote winner is the EC winner, but they do have that power as granted by the constitution
For those interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...rstate_Compact

165 EV have already agreed. Need 105 more. Unlikely to get it, though, unless there is a shift back toward democrats having an advantage in the electoral college.
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Old 11-12-2016, 11:15 PM   #464
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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Counterpoint: Hillary Clinton becomes the leader of your party.
By winning 55% of the popular vote. Sanders didn't lose because of super delegates.
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Old 11-13-2016, 12:24 AM   #465
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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Minimize the chances of having Trump becoming the leader of your party.
.
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Old 11-13-2016, 12:35 AM   #466
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Never heard of this woman before but looks like I found my twitter soulmate in Nomiki Konst. This lady gets it and is worth the follow.
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Old 11-13-2016, 12:41 AM   #467
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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By winning 55% of the popular vote. Sanders didn't lose because of super delegates.
The writing was on the wall after Bernie took 49.59% of the vote in Iowa, but only 47.7% of the pledged delegates, and 41.2% of the total delegates, and he earned identically zero super-delegates. Amazingly, 14% of Iowa state delegates are super-delegates.

Then, a week later, Bernie won 60.14% of the popular vote in NH, and ended up with only 50% of the total state delegates. "Justice" prevailed, Bernie won the support of one of the eight super-delegates. Again though, amazingly, 25% of NH state delegates are super-delegates. Considering how the popular vote in NH went for Bernie, it seems that perhaps no level of popular support would have been sufficient to sway the minds of the super delegates.

This gave Bernie supporters some time to consider the level of the playing field.

Almost two weeks after NH, Bernie managed 47.29% popular support NV, but only managed 37.2% of the state delegates. The super-delegate shenanigans were tamped down... Bernie took 1 out of the 8 available. Super-delegates represent 18% of NV state delegates.

Its important to demoralize the loser as early in the contest as possible.

The psychological affects aside...

Given the pattern of 10-25% of delegates being super-delegates on a per-state basis, and 95+% of super-delegates going for Clinton, it seems that in order for Bernie to win the Democrat Primary in 2016, his popular support by the end of Super Tuesday would have needed to be over 75% to make up for the DNC's super-delegate machine.

In reality, Bernie had no chance.

~~~~

Now, consider for a moment the 2008 Democrat Primary. Hillary took 48% of the popular vote, to Obama's 47.3%.

Obama did to Hillary in 2008 what Hillary did to Bernie in 2016. Though Hillary was virtually tied in the popular vote in the early primary states, Obama took nearly all the super-delegates.

Hillary had no chance in 2008, and no amount of popular support would have changed that.

~~~~

Ultimately though, the Political Parties can run their parties any way they choose. Its up to the people to be knowledgeable of how the parties are run, and to decide whether they want to participate with or support them.

Last edited by Lapidator; 11-13-2016 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 11-13-2016, 01:14 AM   #468
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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My main aggravation is libtards projecting the current popular vote onto the current election. If the winner was decided that way the entire election would be different, specifically due to turnout. A liberal in Kansas may not vote because they know their vote doesn't matter. A conservative in California may not vote because they know their vote doesn't matter.
there's no more motivation for a conservative person in kanses or liberal in california to vote. additional votes in non-swing states would like break the same way as the rest if more people were motivated. clinton's lead would likely be bigger.
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Old 11-13-2016, 06:51 AM   #469
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

CNN was showing Bernie down like 300-0 delegates before Iowa even voted. Yeah he def stood a fighting chance. AFAIK there's also wikileaks showing collusion with DNC to adjust the state voting schedule in the primary if she had a "strong competitor" back in 2015. Hillary crushing all those red states definitely helped her in the general election too, lmao.

We need a Game Theory Optimal party that elects nominee based on their performance in swing states and ignores or minimizes their performance in states that are mortal locks or certain losses (kidding... sorta)

Last edited by imjosh; 11-13-2016 at 06:55 AM. Reason: I'm jacked up on coffee and my post probably doesn't make any sense but IDGAF
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Old 11-13-2016, 10:10 AM   #470
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

found the problem, guys, it's cool, we got this

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Old 11-13-2016, 10:20 AM   #471
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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Originally Posted by imjosh View Post
We need a Game Theory Optimal party that elects nominee based on their performance in swing states and ignores or minimizes their performance in states that are mortal locks or certain losses (kidding... sorta)
How did Clinton fare Vs Sanders in the swing states?
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Old 11-13-2016, 10:25 AM   #472
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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found the problem, guys, it's cool, we got this

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Old 11-13-2016, 02:49 PM   #473
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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Lol, Wyoming are "minorities". F those assclowns. Amirite?
Ha ha it's funny because liberals are supposed to care about minorities while Lapidator gives 0 ****s about actual voter suppression of real minorities or the fact that gerrymandering gives them significantly reduced political power compared to what they should have.

But what say you about the REAL downtrodden in society, the white rancher from Wyoming, huh libtards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999 View Post
My main aggravation is libtards projecting the current popular vote onto the current election. If the winner was decided that way the entire election would be different, specifically due to turnout. ...A conservative in California may not vote because they know their vote doesn't matter.
Kinda owning yourself and showing the merits of a different system here.

Conservatives in CA ALREADY feel like their vote doesn't matter and might not show up. A national popular vote would mean it did. And the dude in Kansas' vote would matter just the same as the person from California.
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Old 11-13-2016, 03:03 PM   #474
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Sounds like Keith Ellison is going to be the guy for the DNC. Now getting support from Reid and Schumer.
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Old 11-13-2016, 03:44 PM   #475
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

bigger, cheaper cities should be the democrat's #1 priority apparently

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