Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Politics political discourse

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-16-2017, 11:29 AM   #4676
Original Position
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Original Position's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 6,699
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffle View Post
There was an article in the Boston Herald this morning about Dems struggling to find a message and being split on Russia nonsense vs healthcare.

The leadership has to be the dumbest of the dumb to not be spending every iota of political capital on the healthcare debate. They could be just bludgeoning Republicans over the head with healthcare, healthcare, healthcare over and over again, but instead every time you turn on the TV their media machine is talking about Russian stuff 24/7 that almost nobody in the country cares about.

The DNC is just historically incompetent right now.
Their media machine? I don't think an out-of-power party drives the media focus as much as you are assuming here.
Original Position is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 11:42 AM   #4677
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: fore the rain starts
Posts: 15,208
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Ratings kind of do though. Calling it a bunch of nothing no one cares about see seems off.
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 11:51 AM   #4678
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 43,155
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
Ratings kind of do though. Calling it a bunch of nothing no one cares about see seems off.
It's possible, but I don't think it's clear that Maddow-Hayes-O'Donnell one after the other all doing their entire show on the same story every night is the best thing for ratings. They don't seem to try anything else, so I don't see how they could know.

It does sound cheap and easy though. Combo of laziness, cost, and not being controlled by the Dem party, but both of them having the similar interests of giant corporations at heart.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 12:03 PM   #4679
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: fore the rain starts
Posts: 15,208
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Msnbc took over the number one spot doing what they are doing. Ratings got to be a least part of the reason they have Russia on all the time. People like scandal.
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 12:08 PM   #4680
Shuffle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,613
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Msnbc ratings are tied to anti-Trump sentiment on the left. They could do an hour show on healthcare, Russia, tax releases, or mocking the size of his hands, and their ratings wouldn't change.

Also wrong if you don't think the DNC and other influential left groups are behind narrative control.

Last edited by Shuffle; 07-16-2017 at 12:17 PM.
Shuffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 12:13 PM   #4681
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 43,155
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Is the DNC a lefty group?
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 12:18 PM   #4682
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: fore the rain starts
Posts: 15,208
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffle View Post
Msnbc ratings are tied to anti-Trump sentiment on the left. They could do an hour show on healthcare, Russia, tax releases, or mocking the size of his hands, and their ratings wouldn't change.

Also dead wrong if you don't think the DNC and other influential lefy groups are behind narrative control.
There is really know way to show that so my assertion wins!!
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 12:23 PM   #4683
Shuffle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,613
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Is the DNC a lefty group?
Center left. Their heirarchy of needs aligns them more with center right than progressives though. Most of them are too myopic to see that though.
Shuffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 12:33 PM   #4684
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 43,155
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Shuffle,

Do you think Tony Perez or whoever calls up Brian Roberts* and tells him what to put on his shows? I think it's more likely that Brian Roberts (and others like him) calls Tony Perez and tells him what to put on his show, er platform.

*CEO of Comcast, which owns NBCUniversal, which has the NBCUniversal Television Group division, which has the NBCUniversal News unit, which owns MSNBC.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 01:00 PM   #4685
einbert
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
einbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: seize the means of production
Posts: 14,529
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

DNC is a centrist capitalist group. At least they support civil rights, but that's a pretty low bar.
einbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 01:16 PM   #4686
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 43,155
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert View Post
DNC is a centrist capitalist group. At least they support civil rights, but that's a pretty low bar.
The US is lucky that many multinational corporations support civil rights, not wanting to alienate any groups of consumers.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 02:00 PM   #4687
einbert
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
einbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: seize the means of production
Posts: 14,529
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

That's correct but as we saw in the North Carolina fight, the corporations are fine with "compromises" that really continue to discriminate against vulnerable communities as long as they can save face by not having the laws look quite so vicious on their face.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.506358f8df86
einbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 04:59 PM   #4688
sportsjefe
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
sportsjefe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,526
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffle View Post
Center left. Their hierarchy of needs aligns them more with center right than progressives though. They are acutely aware of this, which is why actual progressivism gets put on the backburner.
fixed
sportsjefe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 05:25 PM   #4689
Trolly McTrollson
Under your bridges
 
Trolly McTrollson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Winesburg, Ohio
Posts: 20,328
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Trolly McTrollson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 06:12 PM   #4690
DVaut1
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DVaut1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 28,068
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
The US is lucky that many multinational corporations support civil rights, not wanting to alienate any groups of consumers.
Even if ~1965-2016 was an aberration and commitment to small-l liberal political order is on the wane, it's likely that the period increased black and Latino buying and consumption power in America to the point that America's corporate overlords won't tolerate a total roll back of their civil rights since it's bad for business.

Counterpoint: Nazis simply destroyed and confiscated Jewish wealth and businesses, engaged in pogroms to harass Jews, or instituted other forms of economic persecution while the nation's companies and authorities looked on.
DVaut1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 06:33 PM   #4691
Shuffle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,613
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Shuffle,

Do you think Tony Perez or whoever calls up Brian Roberts* and tells him what to put on his shows? I think it's more likely that Brian Roberts (and others like him) calls Tony Perez and tells him what to put on his show, er platform
How do you think these news organizations get their news?

BREAKING: Anonymous sources tell NBC news etc. etc.

You don't think these people have an agenda?

That's just one example, but it's an unambiguous one. The point is that yes, the DNC and other influential interest groups on the left deliver a carefully crafted media narrative on certain neoliberal networks for public consumption. The republicans and their interest groups do the same thing on Fox, center-right publications, talk radio, and increasingly bizarre lunatic fringe sites like Infowars and the like.

The Dems are just proving they are dumber than dumb by wasting time on soap opera stuff that is never going to amount to anything anyway. Day after day, they discredit Trump. That's great. He's already been discredited. What does it get them? A cookie?

Meanwhile healthcare is a serious issue that most of America actually cares about. This is one of the strongest issues the left has. Against a real adversary with real leadership, the Republicans would be committing political suicide what they are doing right now. The Dems could and should just bludgeon them over the head with healthcare 24/7. Rachel Maddow? Healthcare. Chris Matthews? Healthcare. Anderson Cooper? Healthcare. Literally every single show should begin and end with healthcare. Most of the NYT and Newsweek articles should be about healthcare healthcare healthcare.

The fact that the left isn't doing this is historically incompetent. I mean just like last November, they are competing against the mentally handicapped when it comes to politics--and they are still losing. How much more out of touch can they possibly be?
Shuffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 08:48 PM   #4692
Shame Trolly !!!1!
Neo-Gorean
 
Shame Trolly !!!1!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dhimmi EcoWarrior for ISIS
Posts: 4,587
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Position View Post
Their media machine? I don't think an out-of-power party drives the media focus as much as you are assuming here.
So... you don't have any power, and you can't do the propaganda.

Doesn't that mean the only thing you can do is suck an unlimited amount of time and $$$$ down a black hole?

ETA: Go #Team Donkey !!!1!

Last edited by Shame Trolly !!!1!; 07-16-2017 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Go #team Donkey !!!1!
Shame Trolly !!!1! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 09:04 PM   #4693
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 43,155
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1 View Post
Even if ~1965-2016 was an aberration and commitment to small-l liberal political order is on the wane, it's likely that the period increased black and Latino buying and consumption power in America to the point that America's corporate overlords won't tolerate a total roll back of their civil rights since it's bad for business.

Counterpoint: Nazis simply destroyed and confiscated Jewish wealth and businesses, engaged in pogroms to harass Jews, or instituted other forms of economic persecution while the nation's companies and authorities looked on.
The second part is a counterpoint and it was really incredibly against Germany's interest to do that, but Jews were only 0.75% of the German population in 1933. Killing Polish Jews was a profitable industrial procedure for German companies.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 09:16 PM   #4694
Shame Trolly !!!1!
Neo-Gorean
 
Shame Trolly !!!1!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dhimmi EcoWarrior for ISIS
Posts: 4,587
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Position View Post
Their media machine?...
Yeah. Political parties are supposed to have their own press.

Why don't you have your own press? The Donkey can't cry poverty. If the amount of $$$$ you fools ritualistically burn were GDP... you'd be right ahead of Hungry and right behind New Zeeland.

Now I don't know if anyone has ever told you this before, but the reason the MSM so much, is that they charge you their highest rates, and buy copiously product... all so you can spit out your venomous anti-entertainment.

Maybe try this...

Instead of spewing 100% of your ill-gotten $$$$, on say renting tv stations by the 30-second slice... instead, only shred 75% of your swag, and invest the other 25% into buying tv stations I hear newspapers are going really cheap now-a-days
Shame Trolly !!!1! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 09:17 PM   #4695
Original Position
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Original Position's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 6,699
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
So... you don't have any power, and you can't do the propaganda.

Doesn't that mean the only thing you can do is suck an unlimited amount of time and $$$$ down a black hole?
Cable news is driven by different incentives than political parties - which is generally a good thing imo. But control of the media is not the same thing as having political power and obviously the Democrats can regain that. If you are not interested in political power this might seem like a waste, but that is not my view.
Original Position is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 09:28 PM   #4696
Original Position
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Original Position's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 6,699
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
Yeah. Political parties are supposed to have their own press.
We did back when the parties themselves had power rather than non-party groups and politicians.

Quote:
Why don't you have your own press? The Donkey can't cry poverty. If the amount of $$$$ you fools ritualistically burn were GDP... you'd be right ahead of Hungry and right behind New Zeeland.

Now I don't know if anyone has ever told you this before, but the reason the MSM The Tragic Death of the Democratic PartyThe Tragic Death of the Democratic PartyThe Tragic Death of the Democratic Party so much, is that they charge you their highest rates, and buy copiously product... all so you can spit out your venomous anti-entertainment.
Seems to me like you answered your own question.
Original Position is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 10:05 PM   #4697
Shame Trolly !!!1!
Neo-Gorean
 
Shame Trolly !!!1!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dhimmi EcoWarrior for ISIS
Posts: 4,587
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Position View Post
Cable news is driven by different incentives than political parties - which is generally a good thing imo. But control of the media is not the same thing as having political power and obviously the Democrats can regain that. If you are not interested in political power this might seem like a waste, but that is not my view.
Just to be clear, I know I'm confusing and I snark. In this thread, if I don't say otherwise, I'm always posting in the spirit of the thread. When I wanna clown on youz guyz about the fact that political action don't work, I'll make that plenty clear. I'm not going to try to hyjack this thread.

BTW, a few posts up I made a suggestion that the Donkey should hive off a sister fusion party for its Librulz wing. That was a serious suggestion. I'd like you to take a look, if you would be so kind.

To gain political power a party has to do the propaganda (If you don't mind, so as to forestall a chance you might Unintentionally 'Strawman' me, I'd like to Preemptively Clarify that, the way I use my words, 'propaganda' == "politically persuasive speech". I intend no Cold War allusions). In fact, the only two things parties do is (1) wield power, and (2) do the propaganda. That's it. And yes... I know another POTUSBOWL is coming right up. They always are :sigh:.

I was just clowning. Your post, if read in isolation, was you whinging that the Donkey can't do anything at all. That the Donkey is less useful than tits on a log.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Position View Post
... Seems to me like you answered your own question.
My question is: The Donkey can afford to buy, why does he rent? Why isn't there Donkey TV, channel 666, on DirecTV?

Last edited by Shame Trolly !!!1!; 07-16-2017 at 10:15 PM.
Shame Trolly !!!1! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 10:46 PM   #4698
Shame Trolly !!!1!
Neo-Gorean
 
Shame Trolly !!!1!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dhimmi EcoWarrior for ISIS
Posts: 4,587
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Oh yeah, you DONKEYS still haven't figured out why you got waffle crushed by teapot in last POTUSBOWL yet, have you?

I'm too lazy to cite it, but I called it back at day 1. Flat out nailed it.

Spoiler:


How far has the Donkey fallen since his greatest triumph: a dead Kennedy? Kennedy was a pretty-boy who luck boxed in because of color TV. What's their second greatest triumph: a light skinned black man who is a pretty-boy too. Someday there will be a fugly dark skinned black man POTUS, or not, IDC. But the first black POTUS must needs have been a pretty-boy.

There will never be a fugly female POTUS.

Last edited by Shame Trolly !!!1!; 07-16-2017 at 10:54 PM. Reason: I don't care
Shame Trolly !!!1! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 10:51 AM   #4699
TiltedDonkey
old hand
 
TiltedDonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,564
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1 View Post
Even if ~1965-2016 was an aberration and commitment to small-l liberal political order is on the wane, it's likely that the period increased black and Latino buying and consumption power in America to the point that America's corporate overlords won't tolerate a total roll back of their civil rights since it's bad for business.

Counterpoint: Nazis simply destroyed and confiscated Jewish wealth and businesses, engaged in pogroms to harass Jews, or instituted other forms of economic persecution while the nation's companies and authorities looked on.
I think both your point and counterpoint are on point, as it were.

Corporations in America would vastly prefer that civil rights are not rolled back and they will make a lot of noise to prevent it from happening, and that noise will be very effective against normal politicians but if you get a true psycho in there it won't matter.

See: Paris Climate Accord. ~all the corporations wanted us to stay in there and with any normal president we would have, but Trump just goes full IDGAF mode and pulls out anyway.

Luckily, Trump probably cannot accomplish all that much civil rights rollback through executive action but tbf I don't know exactly how much he could accomplish if he set his sights on it.

Things would obviously be far worse if Trump were not such an incompetent clown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
My question is: The Donkey can afford to buy, why does he rent? Why isn't there Donkey TV, channel 666, on DirecTV?
There is probably some benefit to directing your message through an outlet that is at least nominally neutral.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
Oh yeah, you DONKEYS still haven't figured out why you got waffle crushed by teapot in last POTUSBOWL yet, have you?

I'm too lazy to cite it, but I called it back at day 1. Flat out nailed it.

Spoiler:


How far has the Donkey fallen since his greatest triumph: a dead Kennedy? Kennedy was a pretty-boy who luck boxed in because of color TV. What's their second greatest triumph: a light skinned black man who is a pretty-boy too. Someday there will be a fugly dark skinned black man POTUS, or not, IDC. But the first black POTUS must needs have been a pretty-boy.

There will never be a fugly female POTUS.
haha
TiltedDonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 01:38 PM   #4700
well named
poorly undertitled
 
well named's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: esse est coesse
Posts: 73,203
Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Did wil hack shame trolley's account so he could get some main forum posting in?
well named is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online