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The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

02-09-2017 , 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf


Boy I can't believe the Clinton Foundation was going around doing all that **** about malaria as a scam. Profiting off the office of the Presidency is a terrible thing.
One of the dumb****s over in Pog politics, who whined incessantly for months about Hillary's pay for play scams, was asked about what qualifications Devos had for secretary of education.

His response? "Well, she donated to the Trump campaign for one."

jaguarfanwhat.gif
02-09-2017 , 05:34 PM
I think Glenn Greenwald summed up the dying Democratic Party quite well

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/09/...eed-attention/
02-09-2017 , 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
Yes interesting post. From the post:

This strategy was clearly a loser. People want changes in DC and Clinton clearly represented the stud quo. This guy deserves a few kudos for not adopting the Dem party line on the Russians, Comey, etc.

A clear repudiatin of "identity" politics.
He's just advocating identity via belief system, i.e. religion, political ideology, shared racial prejudices, etc.
02-09-2017 , 08:49 PM
Also, checked out the Green Party Wikipedia today for laughs. They have a decent number of office holders in both PA and WI according to the article. The rift on the left needs to be healed. If the Dems want any shot nationally they need one or both states back, or the GOP could potentially build a long standing winning coalition with a minority of the popular vote. The Greens and Dems need to come together now. Without a unified left wing we are sunk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_..._United_States

Last edited by stinkubus; 02-09-2017 at 08:50 PM. Reason: link if anyone cares
02-09-2017 , 08:57 PM
The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party.

02-09-2017 , 09:35 PM
Schumer ready to vote for a ban if you just exempt legal residents who aren't citizens.
02-09-2017 , 09:41 PM
It's more than just the rabid partisan Rs who want a slowdown on immigration. A bone should have probably been thrown earlier, even if it's bad policy. We certainly could have guaranteed much more humanity in the process, and made it much less restrictive, if it had been addressed by a previous administration. At the end of the date you kind of have to placate the voters.
02-09-2017 , 09:50 PM
What bone could have been thrown? No legislation was passed, but it wasn't because the issue was being ignored, it was because the two parties couldn't reach an agreement on the Dream Act or any comprehensive reform package.

Meanwhile, Obama was deporting millions of people, so it's not like ICE was in complete standdown mode.
02-09-2017 , 10:48 PM
Yea it's kind of amazing how effective complete GOP obstruction was. Here we are blaming Trump's ban on Obama not getting things done, even through there was a huge effort to get a bipartisan consensus on immigration control.
02-09-2017 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
Yea it's kind of amazing how effective complete GOP obstruction was. Here we are blaming Trump's ban on Obama not getting things done, even through there was a huge effort to get a bipartisan consensus on immigration control.
No one has time to figure out how our political system works, they're all too busy whining about how our political system works!
02-09-2017 , 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkubus
Also, checked out the Green Party Wikipedia today for laughs. They have a decent number of office holders in both PA and WI according to the article. The rift on the left needs to be healed. If the Dems want any shot nationally they need one or both states back, or the GOP could potentially build a long standing winning coalition with a minority of the popular vote. The Greens and Dems need to come together now. Without a unified left wing we are sunk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_..._United_States
They have a non zero shot at TX if they gave up on gun control.

As a backdoor, farm incomes are going to hell, so a big chunk of the midwest --even KS is back in play if dems did it right but Warren or whoever from the east coast won't do it and neither IL senator is gonna help much on this. I think OH and VA are gone to R's.

The biggest issue atm with the internal side of things is resolving the internal fight between the ones that want to go to the middle or work with R's and the non idiots in the party that are probably too far left.

Last edited by wheatrich; 02-09-2017 at 11:59 PM.
02-10-2017 , 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich
They have a non zero shot at TX if they gave up on gun control.

As a backdoor, farm incomes are going to hell, so a big chunk of the midwest --even KS is back in play if dems did it right but Warren or whoever from the east coast won't do it and neither IL senator is gonna help much on this. I think OH and VA are gone to R's.

The biggest issue atm with the internal side of things is resolving the internal fight between the ones that want to go to the middle or work with R's and the non idiots in the party that are probably too far left.
Yea I was reading about that. I think Dems attacking monopsony in say chicken farming would go far
02-10-2017 , 12:36 AM
Does Purdue dwarf other buyers or something?
02-10-2017 , 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vixticator
You are using a very Phone Booth definition of grandstanding, aren't you? Define it. Because, if you are defining grandstanding as 'that which causes attention and no change' you probably need to say that when you use the word. Like, it's not exactly Merriam Webster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vixticator
It was you who referred to the civil rights movement as SJW, I was mocking you. You specifically said 'they are hurting their own cause', apparently blissfully unaware that you are taking up the mantle of ~William F Buckley "why don't they put me in charge." Well, golly, Phone Booth I truly wonder why. I daresay 5five is reading you carefully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vixticator
They already have. That's what I said earlier, to Phone Booth. The Democrats are not who you think they are; they are those people and many more. Yes, even white ones, even Evangelicals. But those Evangelicals are rare for a reason. Most of the sincere conservative Evangelicals have, let's be nice, theological issues concerning core Democratic principles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vixticator
I will concede, and have, in fact, conceded in other threads that religion must be taken seriously. Just not unserious religions. Within every major faith that I'm aware of, there exist serious persons, and I don't mean those serious persons (not usually). An awful lot of people are straight up lying about their deeply held faith. I don't mean casual hypocrisy. And I don't think conservatives are incapable of serious adherence, either.

Within these traditions is often where 'radical' moral progress is made. But, it's pretty far from their exclusive domain. What the **** is the Sermon on the Mount if not taking a rhetorical position that is maximally upsetting to others? Like, I'm legitimately questioning, in a non-rhetorical way, your reading comprehension abilities if you're saying what you seem to be saying.

"Well, you see, when I said this my definition was blah blah."

Just publish the goddamn Tractatus already.

All at once.

Submit reply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vixticator
The Bill of Rights, and further civil rights work isn't SJW nonsense, Phone Booth. Stop meditating on the mountain. Go find where I'm talking about how we need to invent the best words to describe intersectional feminist conflict theory, you know, for progress. Like, shrug, I don't know, enforcement of the equal protection clause? Let's do that. If I attended some hippie commune and discussed the need to transcend our bodies, become nature, and so on, I must've forgotten.

The Democratic Party is not an instrument of the people of which you speak. That you believe otherwise, well, you tell us. They throw fits on twitter and mostly live in actual dorm rooms. Writing policy they ain't. But, their existence it would appear to frighten your delicate sensibilities, and mistake some for others. You've been had. Torch your library. There I go again, that rhetorical twist, funneling deplorables to the polling stations. I must contain myself. Find my mountain. Please signal signal forgive signal me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vixticator
Phone Booth said the problem with SJW's is they ain't radical enough, AND they would be foolish not to cooperate with selling out some civil rights issues for power. In different posts. I'm not entirely sure how to merge these concepts. With regards to "depress black turnout" he believes no such thing would take place. I asked him.



It's almost like you have to study POLITICS to understand POLITICS. Incredible, who knew?
02-10-2017 , 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkubus
Does Purdue dwarf other buyers or something?
It's down to a few buyers. I remember as an example in a case a guy was arguing about Democrats should be focusing on anti trust more because chicken farmers' incomes and ability to get food terms on their contracts has remarkedly decreased as the major food producers have consolidated.
02-10-2017 , 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkubus
It's more than just the rabid partisan Rs who want a slowdown on immigration. A bone should have probably been thrown earlier, even if it's bad policy. We certainly could have guaranteed much more humanity in the process, and made it much less restrictive, if it had been addressed by a previous administration. At the end of the date you kind of have to placate the voters.
Slowdown on what immigration? There are fewer undocumented aliens in the US than there were 8 years ago. Net migration from Mexico is a negative number.
02-10-2017 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
To rebuild, Democrats obviously need to start winning some elections, particularly the 2018 midterms, which could set the stage for a 2020 victory at the state level when redistricting happens again. The most reliably left-wing (and the most anti-Trump) demographic in the country at the moment is young people. But young people often don't vote in midterms, so the party must try to convince them to turn out. Sanders inspired tremendous enthusiasm among this group with his calls for universal Medicare, tuition-free college, repealing Citizens United, fighting police brutality, and so on.

But that sort of agenda would require huge increases in taxation on entrenched power and the rich. It is thus squarely at odds with the class interest of the donors Clinton spent half her campaign huddled with (not to mention the business titan Barack Obama has been kitesurfing with since Trump took power). What's more, it would represent a sharp diminution of their own power within the party as an institution, which elites virtually always resist even at the cost of hurting the institution itself. As John Kenneth Galbraith has said, "People of privilege almost always prefer to risk...total destruction, rather than surrender any part of their privileges."

But if the Democrats are to mount an angry populist assault on President Trump and the Republican Party, they can't have a leader whose leash is attached to the hands of the people who got them into this mess in the first place.
http://theweek.com/articles/679063/w...mocratic-party
02-11-2017 , 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
To be honest I don't quite know why people think centrism is dead. The principles that made it an electoral juggernaut through the 90s and 00s broadly remain true. What has changed?

I think it's possible that what we saw last year is a blip and we will get a regession to the mean in time. That is kind of what I hope.

The alternative ever wideneing extremity on both ends of the spectrum. I don't know why anyone would want that.
devastating income inequality
02-11-2017 , 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
I have no idea what this post means or even what party it's about.
If you're an outside observer, the most public fight the Democrats are having is... a bathroom bill for transgenders? Who are less than 1% of the population. That fight used to be for black people, which there are a lot of. Then it was for gay marriage, which there are a decent amount of. Working class people of all stripes are seeing politicians and celebrities use their political capital not on making their lives better, but on these small slivers of the populace. They felt left behind, and they abandoned Clinton in response. That's how we got here.
02-11-2017 , 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich
They have a non zero shot at TX if they gave up on gun control.

As a backdoor, farm incomes are going to hell, so a big chunk of the midwest --even KS is back in play if dems did it right but Warren or whoever from the east coast won't do it and neither IL senator is gonna help much on this. I think OH and VA are gone to R's.

The biggest issue atm with the internal side of things is resolving the internal fight between the ones that want to go to the middle or work with R's and the non idiots in the party that are probably too far left.
TX, GA, and AZ are flippable in the near future based on changing demographics and a much more highly educated crowd > 25 that hates social conservatism.

Kansas I'm not so sure. Despite Brownback being an incomprehensible disaster there, Trump still won it by 20.6 pts.

At the end of your 2nd paragraph, I assume you meant IA, not VA.
02-11-2017 , 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
To be honest I don't quite know why people think centrism is dead. The principles that made it an electoral juggernaut through the 90s and 00s broadly remain true. What has changed?

I think it's possible that what we saw last year is a blip and we will get a regession to the mean in time. That is kind of what I hope.

The alternative ever wideneing extremity on both ends of the spectrum. I don't know why anyone would want that.
Centrism is alive and well. I'm a centrist, Bernie's a centrist. But in USA#1 it's been renamed Socialism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoltinJake
haha. but yeah on a serious note they could use a frank luntz type to simplify messaging as well. call it the robin hood plan or something.
I like it, but what worries me is I think too many people think they're already wealthy or will be hitting the lottery within the next year or two.

I can't find a link, but like 10 years ago a friend was telling me about a poll he saw showing that 16% of Americans believe that they're in the top 1% of income, and 60% believe they will be in the 1% someday. I wonder how much this thinking would make them continue voting R.
02-11-2017 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsjefe
If you're an outside observer, the most public fight the Democrats are having is... a bathroom bill for transgenders? Who are less than 1% of the population. That fight used to be for black people, which there are a lot of. Then it was for gay marriage, which there are a decent amount of. Working class people of all stripes are seeing politicians and celebrities use their political capital not on making their lives better, but on these small slivers of the populace. They felt left behind, and they abandoned Clinton in response. That's how we got here.
The bathroom bill was the most public fight the Democrats had? Oh, for sure.

Mother****er do you know what party passed HB2?
02-11-2017 , 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkubus
He's just advocating identity via belief system, i.e. religion, political ideology, shared racial prejudices, etc.
No he isn't actually. He talks in depth about people's moral values and how the Dems ignore that. Btw he implies that HRC is a majority candidate because she won the popular vote. Well she didn't win a majority (>50%) of the popular vote either. She won a plurality.

The Dems lost the House in 1994 after holding a majority there since the 30's. What changes brought that about if anything? America became more racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, what? Since then the Repubs have held it 20 out of the last 24 years. Why?

Last edited by adios; 02-11-2017 at 07:52 PM.
02-11-2017 , 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
No he isn't actually. He talks in depth about people's moral values and how the Dems ignore that. Btw he implies that HRC is a majority candidate because she won the popular vote. Well she didn't win a majority (>50%) of the popular vote either. She won a plurality.

The Dems lost the House in 1994 after holding a majority there since the 30's. What changes brought that about if anything? America became more racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, what? Since then the Repubs have held it 20 out of the last 24 years. Why?
Frank Luntz? The GOP got better at dog whistling their racism in a way that it would fit on bumper stickers affixed to Hummers.
02-11-2017 , 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
The bathroom bill was the most public fight the Democrats had? Oh, for sure.

Mother****er do you know what party passed HB2?
Of course. People are dumb. I'm not saying it's right or that it even makes sense.

      
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