Dems gotta learn that compromising values is exactly how they lose votes from progressive leftists.

The Dems don't need to attract deplorables to their cause. They need somebody to motivate their own base to get out and vote. If they do that, they will have enough to win. If the Dems move right, they will demotivate their base while not attracting enough deplorables to compensate.

The “progressive left” wants border security and stricter limits on immigration to protect American workers. If democrats compromise their values on immigration it’s atleast partly to appease progressive leftists.

Bull****

+1

My one irl ACist friend is aghast about the 'moral panic' ar the border by libruls who're obviously complicit in the rape and murder of millions of kids by the state. Or something.

Abolish ICE is the centrist Democrat position?

Max's only purpose in this thread (and this forum) is to lie, shift the conversation to the right, and to sneer at anyone who doesn't slavishly worship economic power centers.

As much as open borders or policies that make it easier for poor people to enter the US are a good thing is the progressive left position.

If I had to put my chips on someone right now for 2020 it would likely be Sen. Merkley from OR. Think he's emerged as a solid leader. Also, when some reporter asked him if he was running, he didn't try to gaslight. He just said something like, "I'm considering it."

I hope he didn't use to beat his gf or whatever.

When we do have the next election, I would bet my bottom dollar that the republicans will pretend Trump never happened and they will clutch their pearls and argue things like failing to pay tax for a nanny are absolutely disqualifying.

Never let them forget that Trump happened and they supported him. It should be the main theme for the next 20 years. We let them bury Nixon way too fast, to the point where his criminal stooges were cropping up in power here and there during Regan. I want a new national holiday with yearly reenactments of show trials and public denunciations. And for as long as I live I will absolutely go nuts if any republican ever again tries to use civility as a sword and shield, like GW Bush, while they litter the landscape with the mangled bodies of the innocent.

The person most responsible for both the immigration itself and the criminalization of immigration was the quintessential centrist of the Democratic Party, Bill Clinton.

Open borders though is the position only particular subsets of the left and the right. Trump has been upped the atrocity level in his enforcement of the standard centrist GOP/DEM policy of the last 20 years.

Clinton may have been **** on immigration, but racist deplorables have been running on immigration for 200 years. They even had a political party focused around keeping out the Catholics and such in the 1840s-50s.

Don't confuse Clinton's efforts at triangulation in the face of things like Prop 187 (or, more accurately, the political environment that led to Prop 187) as the cause of terrible immigration policies. Purists often conflate democrats who "deal" on an issue or enter a spineless compromise with those who have devoted their entire political existent to it. This is the everlasting fuel of mindless #bothsides analysis.

+2

Is it? I don't know if it's centrist, but it's a good idea. ICE only exists to create a moral panic over immigrants. Their job could be done just as well by a conventional police force.

Who is max? Escrite d adulte or whatever the **** his name is?

Clinton might have been a Democrat but he was definitely pretty aggressive when it came to illegal immigrants.

What's ridiculous is that deplorables use that to defend Donald Trump's policies. Look at the horrible things Clinton did, therefore Donald...

They never finish that sentence with what should happen primarily because they're happy with what immigrants are going through.

The reality is that it's really an extension of the abuse and mistreatment of immigrants that has gone on since the mid 19th century. Doesn't make it right. Just expected.

Bull****. Clinton was absolutely a leader on criminalizing immigration and lots of these #bothsides positions. He was a leader in financial deregulation, he was a leader in mass incarceration and ffs he was trying to privatize social security.

Can you point out bills that he proposed to back these things up?

I mean I don't think you're necessarily wrong. Clinton was definitely a centrist as POTUS. But if you're going to make those claims, the burden is on you to back them up.

The virulent anti-immigrant sentiment of the left.

https://www.thenation.com/article/to...-human-rights/

Toxic Borders and the Struggle for Human Rights
A world with open borders could decrease human rights violations and the inhumane treatment of undocumented workers in the United States.
By Claire Devine

https://www.thenation.com/article/ho...-about-the-eu/

How Xenophobia Could Ruin the Best Thing About the EU
If the European Union can’t agree on a common resettlement policy for refugees, one of its signal achievements—open borders among member nations—could disappear.
By Daniel Trilling

https://www.thenation.com/article/sc...hurts-workers/

How Scapegoating Immigrants Hurts All Workers
ICE raided a New Bedford factory in 2007, but the jobs that opened up for other workers didn’t last long.
By George Goehl

And here's an example of the kind of progressive left resistance that Democrats in Congress will meet when they try to propose pro-immigrant legislation.

I can't copy the graph in the Vox article, but look at what happened to the number of Mexicans deported, not just when the 1996 Immigration bill passed, but starting when BC became POTUS.

ATC,

Dessin generally doesn't know what the **** he's talking about. His only exposure to this issue, because he doesn't really give a ****, is from arguing on 2p2 and from that he's seen that some progressives, including Bernie, have said some things against "OPEN BORDERS" because they are afraid it will negatively affect American workers.

The Bill and Hillary Clinton calls for heightened border security are maybe partly based on the supposed effect of immigration on American workers, but maybe not, they seem more like the standard Trumpian position that they think dirty foreigners are bringing in drugs, are rapists and are ruining our culture.

Uh, I don't think the burden is on me to show what most people know. It's not hidden. The Crime Bill of 1994 is pretty damn infamous. To BC's credit he has done some mea culpa's.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/15/polit...ill/index.html

As far as deregulation, everyone knows about the repeal of Glass-Steagal, right? But he also deregulated the communications industry which, among other things, lifted the cap on radio station ownership and has led to like two companies with extremely conservative agendas owning most of the radio in the country. 1992 allowed FHA to open up government insurance programs designed to promote affordable housing to the larger market in general, and BC established automated underwriting standards, lower appraisal standards, creation of low quality mortgage products, etc...all leading toward housing bubble and crash, financial crisis, and the great recession. That's just off the top of my head with a minute or two of checking things. There was no daylight between BC and standard GOP deregulation.

As far as privatizing social security... https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...-newt-gingrich

You're doing the thing again Max. We're good people, you're not. It's not an act.

I don’t know if I’d call it virulent but Bernie Sanders does peddle the standard leftist immigrants take away jerbs claptrap.

“I frankly do not believe that we should be bringing in significant numbers of unskilled to workers to compete with [unemployed] kids,” Sanders said. “I want to see these kids get jobs.”

Maybe the argument is Sanders is an idiot and actually believes this while other dems are just abandoning principles, but it hardly seems like border enforcement is a huge turn off for mainstream progressives. Which was the original point argued against.

"bringing in significant numbers of unskilled workers" != "border security" which was your original point and Bernie has a record on this and voted against the Immigration Control Act of 1996. You've got him on his reply to a question about "OPEN BORDERS!!!!!". You should get a job at Breitbart or Infowars.

Who is your non-idiot candidate who doesn't believe in the leftist claptrap? Ron Paul?

I wish we could run him for pres. CHANGE THE LAWS!

Just to pile on because it really is such a wrong take, this is a standout terrible post and you had to try really hard to make one of those considering the heaps of **** you post on this forum.

I never said progressives worried about low wage immigrants coming into the country are putting on an act. I was allowing for the fact that centrists might be.