Yea this is what I mean about sophistry. Seattlelou said the same thing. All of what you said is true, but not relevant to the "solvency" issue. We could easily convert discretionary spending to entitlement spending and vice versa, they're just budgetary distinctions, but not relevant to "is there enough money to spend on this thing?". The answer to Medicare, like the military, is yes, easily. The military has spent a ton dollars on a plane that doesn't even work, but it's some breaking a taboo for Trump to finally say we might have a bloated military budget (that he's going to increase), and yet we hear endless stories about people on food stamps eating salmon.

I thought it was lobster???? I don't understand why people get a lot more pissed off about some poor person taking advantage of the system for whatever small amount as opposed to the very wealthy taking advantage for large amounts. Is it because it's easier to look down on the poor person instead of fighting people with power or what?

People who desperately want to find a sub-demographic of liberals to blame Trump on would be better served targeting their ire on the willfully naive gormless "kumbaya" crowd than the tumblristas.

You say that like it was hippies or something, but if there's any truth in your post it's about liberals who cooperate with reactionaries. That'd be the conservative dem Clinton camp who just have a lot in common with the GOP and the genius pragmatists like Obama who start the negotiation at compromise.

And around here, the smart professional class so eager to make sure people know they think things like OWS and noDAPL are pointless and stupid.

OWS was pointless and stupid and everyone involved should be ashamed of the way they let it get co-opted by the mentally ill and the fringe to do NOTHING instead of channeling it into political activism

this, obviously

it needed leadership, too

No idea what you wrote here or what it has to do with what my post was about.

Shameful.

Wiki - Occupy Wall Street

it didn't accomplish anything directly but i think it definitely changed the attitude of a good chunk of the country

look at bernie sanders. before OWS would you have imagined a politician using the word "socialist" to describe himself having even a remote chance of being nominated?

OWS created strong and still-persistent narratives that resonate with large segments of the population.

As a political organization it was a disaster, but it wasn't pointless.

Exactly what I'm talking about counselor.

Leadership is overrated.

This and neither it nor BLM were/are political organizations in that way. Neither were the civil rights or anti - Vietnam protests.

When your hot takes on OWS are indistinguishable from bahbah's......LO****ingL

I participated in OWS(not in NYC but a different major city). I'm still using the contacts I made with other activists, and the experiences from that time to do political activism IRL. We still haven't accomplished all of our progressive goals.....por ahora.

What single goal have you accomplished ?

Makes it a lot harder when you and fly and champstark and dessin all join rara and seattlelou and mongodig in opposition.

Exactly the opposite. Leadership is the only way things truly get done, for better or for worse. No one gave a **** about OWS because there was no face to it. No one gave a **** about anything Bernie talked about until he became a Presidential nominee and (whether you liked him or not) wasn't afraid to go crazy on people. No one gave a **** about Nazis and the alt-right until Trump gave them a voice. I can go on and on and on.

Seriously what did you do? What was the policy goal, and was it met?

Sure, it highlighted the grotesque inequality of late stage capitalism, but those narratives existed before Zucotti park.

Who got elected? What bill got passed? The left still has no ****ing idea what the game is here, it's all performative bull****. The Dems got ****ing creamed in 2014 midterms by old people scared Obama was bringing in Ebola anchor babies. Fox News delivered votes for the Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street ruined some Starbucks bathrooms.

noDAPL is entirely different. Their ****ing name is their goal, and they at least succeeded in delaying it. Those people DID something.

So, the Republicans, led by a revanchist and arguably neo-fascist tendency, have control of the Senate, the House and the Presidency, along with a clear majority of governorships and state legislatures. Yeah. A little ****ing way still to go yet.

Protip: Charismatic individuals who can marshal a crowd towards a single purpose may be a double-edged sword, but at least you can use a ****ing sword. Elaborate hand-signals designed to prevent the emergence of top-down executive direction may not be a sword, but you know what? You can't ****ing use it.

Well, prior to to OWS, I was actively involved and volunteering with groups(mainly non-profits and community organizations) that focused on cannabis legalization and LGBTQ rights. I had worked on the Prop 19(cannabis legalization in CA) campaign in 2010. And we also had been canvasing and having IRL convos with people that were both for and against same sex marriage. We raised funds for LGBTW groups and changed some minds.

OWS, in part, allowed us to network with other activists(labor activists, immigrants rights activists, etc). Those opportunities allowed us, among other things, to build solidarity with each other. To come together as a community, and not just read about, but experience the truth that women's rights=LGBTQ rights=immigrants rights=workers' rights, etc. This has an exponential effect on making our movements work better together.

One example: I met people at OWS, that prior to that would have never actively participated in the Prop 64(cannabis legalization in CA) campaign and some of them had voted against Prop 19 just six years prior. Those peoples' change in attitudes, not only resulted in them voting in favor of Prop 64, it also helped them actively campaign for it. This is real change in real people at a base level.

So what have we accomplished? Not everything that we've set out to accomplish. I'm not claiming that we 100% are responsible for ending cannabis prohibition in CA, but to say we've done nothing is a massive slap in the face to people that you should consider your allies.

Coastal centrists: Parks and Rec cosplay online, whatever brain disease makes them think The West Wing was a documentary, donating once every four years to the Presidential campaign

Radicals: Refusing to register to vote because "the system is bull****" and/or voting for Jill Stein, semi-random marches


Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

I'm not opposing anything. I don't even vote. If they failed to produce any changes, it's not on me.

I got a question for you then:

AsesinoDePayasos,

The corporatists and neoliberals will never consider true progressives their allies, only a tool to further their agenda. I appreciate and respect your work and commitment, and on a dark day like this that begins full republican control under Trump, the world and progressive movement needs more people like you, and a lot less of the neoliberals that considered OWS "pointless and stupid".

The world will move past those people, and their true allegiance will be exposed.