Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2019, 03:23 AM   #176
NPC123
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 15
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert View Post
No you have it right. Israel government is not only not letting people leave, they are sniping people in the legs (including children) for protesting peacefully against all this. It's well documented.
You didn't answer the full question. Are Israelis treated well in Palestine or other parts of the Middle East? From what I know, Israelis are treated bad in those places too, some of the countries don't even allow Jews/Israeli passports to enter the country.
NPC123 is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:26 AM   #177
NPC123
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 15
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Why won't the Israel government let people leave?
NPC123 is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:38 AM   #178
AllTheCheese
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AllTheCheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sad life; won't change
Posts: 11,907
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

NPC123 JAQ ITT.
AllTheCheese is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:40 AM   #179
synth_floyd
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,732
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPC123 View Post
Why won't the Israel government let people leave?
You mean why won't Israel or Egypt let people leave? The blockade of Gaza is a joint effort by both countries but of course Israel gets 100% of the blame. The Egyptian government even murdered 2 Palestinians from Gaza the other day in a smuggling tunnel and there wasn't a peep about it. It's all about the j00s.

But the answer is because the government of Gaza is a dangerous enemy of both Israel and Egypt.
synth_floyd is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:41 AM   #180
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 53,303
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPC123 View Post
Thats a little confusing article to me. I wanted you to answer. Is Israel government or random people torturing muslims? They aren't letting them leave? Are Israelis treated well in Palestine or other Muslim countries in the middle east?
Israel did just kill 168 people and injure 15000 last year. And generally no, people in Gaza can't leave - though Egypt is to blame for that as well. Also, people can't just come into Gaza. Israel controls "their" border with the sea.

Jews aren't treated well in other countries in the ME, but often Palestinians aren't either. Many are little more than indentured servants in SA, Qatar, or Kuwait. But what does that have to do with whether or not Gazans should be allowed to have any control over, say their border with the sea?
microbet is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:47 AM   #181
NPC123
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 15
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese View Post
NPC123 JAQ ITT.
Do questions scare you? (I just learned that Egypt is possibly also part to blame for people being trapped in Israel. I've never heard that before.) Useful to ask questions...
NPC123 is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:48 AM   #182
NPC123
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 15
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Israel did just kill 168 people and injure 15000 last year. And generally no, people in Gaza can't leave - though Egypt is to blame for that as well. Also, people can't just come into Gaza. Israel controls "their" border with the sea.

Jews aren't treated well in other countries in the ME, but often Palestinians aren't either. Many are little more than indentured servants in SA, Qatar, or Kuwait. But what does that have to do with whether or not Gazans should be allowed to have any control over, say their border with the sea?
I am curious how a communist will answer those questions after taking such a strong stance against Israel Human rights violations, I am wondering if he will take a equally strong stance against these other countries.
NPC123 is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:55 AM   #183
AllTheCheese
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AllTheCheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sad life; won't change
Posts: 11,907
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPC123 View Post
Do questions scare you? (I just learned that Egypt is possibly also part to blame for people being trapped in Israel. I've never heard that before.) Useful to ask questions...
I'm scared of you getting banned, because I can tell you are a sincere person trying to engage in the spirit of vigorous debate for which this forum was created.

Quote:
2. Zero tolerance for new trolls. If you are a new poster who has just “found” this forum and are suddenly “just asking questions” that sure smell like, walk like, and talk like a troll, you will not get the benefit of the doubt;
AllTheCheese is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 04:01 AM   #184
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 53,303
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPC123 View Post
I am curious how a communist will answer those questions after taking such a strong stance against Israel Human rights violations, I am wondering if he will take a equally strong stance against these other countries.
There's no reason a communist couldn't, but I don't think einbert will. I'm afraid he's more or less joined a cult.
microbet is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 04:04 AM   #185
NPC123
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 15
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese View Post
I'm scared of you getting banned, because I can tell you are a sincere person trying to engage in the spirit of vigorous debate for which this forum was created.
I am happy you are concerned for me . I will try to ask less questions!
NPC123 is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 05:22 AM   #186
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: idiocracy
Posts: 16,806
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
I didn't use the phrase



I used it against people clamoring for the blood of the sick kid who drove his car into a crowd of people.
Sigh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chymechowder View Post
also lolol at the disingenuous randy marsh from south park defense, "I thought this was America, what I can't be critical of AIPAC?"

omar wasn't just critical of aipac. she said that US members of congress support Israel BECAUSE THEY ARE PAID TO DO SO BY AIPAC.

there's a couple miles in between "just taking issue with some aipac policies" and what she flat out said. (good on her for apologizing after correctly getting called out by both sides.)
If there is one thing she has shown it is both sides are very different in calling out their anti-smites.
batair is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 05:28 AM   #187
gregorio
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,627
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

NPC, yes, Israelis are treated well in Palestine, much better than the Palestinians themselves. They are encouraged to take land there to settle on and are not even subject to the apartheid that Palestinians face.
gregorio is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:29 AM   #188
Money2Burn
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Misreading your post.
Posts: 12,294
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
Israel should not be a third rail. You either gaf or you don't.
Sure it can. I give a **** about the Palestinians who are oppressed by religious nut jobs and I give a **** about the the people who live in Israel who for the most part live in constant fear that other religious nut jobs will attack or invade them. Yet, I don’t see any way to criticize the actions of Israel and its supporters, or express support for people suffering in Palestine without getting labeled an anti-Semite. So third rail it is.
Money2Burn is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:40 AM   #189
lozen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lozen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 14,637
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2Burn View Post
Sure it can. I give a **** about the Palestinians who are oppressed by religious nut jobs and I give a **** about the the people who live in Israel who for the most part live in constant fear that other religious nut jobs will attack or invade them. Yet, I don’t see any way to criticize the actions of Israel and its supporters, or express support for people suffering in Palestine without getting labeled an anti-Semite. So third rail it is.
I agree I think many people when Israel is brought up just shut up because they do not want to be quickly labeled an anti-Semite.
lozen is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:44 AM   #190
iamnotawerewolf
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
iamnotawerewolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Every change I've ever made
Posts: 27,839
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

What makes the the Israel-Palestine debate so difficult is that most people involved feel like they need to pick which side is right.

The Palestinians have collectively rejected multiple, internationally-backed compromises; met voluntary Israeli partitioning with suicide bombings and other acts commonly acknowledged as terroristic; and made overt assertions desiring the elimination of Israel's existence.

The Israelis have committed numerous human rights violations against the Palestinians unable or unwilling to retreat to Jordan and have increasingly punished people innocent of the aforementioned terrorism (many of whom are directly opposed to it but powerless to stop it).


Driving the conflict on both sides are religious zealots and victims-turned-perpetrators.



The saying "two Jews, three opinions" is applicable to both sides, and yet on each (and here too, on what might be considered socially "neutral" ground) there are those who will insist on attributing the worst of each to the entirety of the other.



The intractable divisions currently in place require outside interference to resolve; the only alternative is annihilation. The suggestion that "people should not discuss Israel" is a poor one that needs to be replaced with "people should learn the history of Israel".

One doesn't need to reach back into biblical times to get to the root; that's the theocratic line. Look to the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, 100 years ago, and the developments since then. The British ****ed everything up, promising everything to everybody and then delivering on ~nothing.


It is a non-starter to view Israel as an "occupation" (there were plenty of jews already living there), just as it is to comment that Palestine "doesn't really exist".

If you care about resolving the conflict, as opposed to winning a debate on it, you have to move past attitudes like these.
iamnotawerewolf is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:52 AM   #191
grizy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
grizy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Looking for Rush HU Poker
Posts: 17,981
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

+1

Part of the fatalism is the more you study the history the more you realize how intractable the problem is.
grizy is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:53 AM   #192
iamnotawerewolf
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
iamnotawerewolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Every change I've ever made
Posts: 27,839
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Critiquing the Israeli government is not antisemitic.

Just about everybody knows that The Jews don't have collective control over the the government of a remote, Middle Eastern nation-state.

It is possible to critique the Israeli government in an antisemitic way, by applying antisemitic tropes (motifs, symbols, icons, stereotypes, etc) to the regime. Similarly, I can criticize Obama for being too aloof, but I should probably refrain from calling him "shiftless".
iamnotawerewolf is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 12:06 PM   #193
iamnotawerewolf
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
iamnotawerewolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Every change I've ever made
Posts: 27,839
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

on that note, and tying this back to the thread topic, it is not antisemitic to point out that the pro-Israeli lobby funds pro-Israel policy, and in the broader context of upturning the role of corporate-/money in politics, even less so

it's closer but also not antisemitic to suggest that Israel is "hypnotizing" people (though the statement is idiotic nevertheless)



she doesn't allude to the globalist jewish conspiracy to control the world through greed-driven debt arrangements or to some preternatural, subjugating jewish acumen

and when she uses the word "Israel", there is no reason to read her to mean the people/nation rather than the state, absent a prejudicial filter based on her own ethnoreligious background and associations
iamnotawerewolf is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 12:08 PM   #194
iamnotawerewolf
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
iamnotawerewolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Every change I've ever made
Posts: 27,839
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

you can tell the people who want her to be antisemitic by their reactions to her excellent apology ("she doesn't mean it", "she was forced to publish it", etc)
iamnotawerewolf is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 12:15 PM   #195
iamnotawerewolf
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
iamnotawerewolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Every change I've ever made
Posts: 27,839
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy View Post
Part of the fatalism is the more you study the history the more you realize how intractable the problem is.
is it a fundamental tenet of political theory that people entrenched in conflict, left to their own devises, will not achieve a morally (or even functionally) optimal solution

abstaining from the discussion/environment is equivalent to stepping out of the way of a downrolling snowball
iamnotawerewolf is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 01:48 PM   #196
FlyWf
It's the other way
 
FlyWf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: [ ] REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE
Posts: 57,615
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
There's no reason a communist couldn't, but I don't think einbert will. I'm afraid he's more or less joined a cult.
Jesus ****ing Christ
FlyWf is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 01:49 PM   #197
FlyWf
It's the other way
 
FlyWf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: [ ] REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE
Posts: 57,615
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Making new friends by NEVER being an a-hole is what the internet is all about guys
FlyWf is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 01:57 PM   #198
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 53,303
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf View Post
Jesus ****ing Christ
You don't know what you're talking about because in your country club you've never actually met a communist. And oh yeah, **** off frat boy.
microbet is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 02:04 PM   #199
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 53,303
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf View Post
Making new friends by NEVER being an a-hole is what the internet is all about guys
Who the **** are you talking to? Your internet friends? You imagine you're rounding up the support of the people who think FlyWf is a great internet hero? You're always addressing the crowd like that. What the **** is that? Something they taught you in law school?
microbet is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 02:34 PM   #200
kimoser22
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: the land of pleasant living
Posts: 3,368
Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

the tweet, and the intercept article defending Omar got me watching the al Jazerra doc the "lobby USA" its been interesting so far, but nothing really new or groundbreaking...also Al Jazerra is Qatari who is a Iranian client state so obviously biased against Israel... but the doc does talk about how AIPAC's influence is far greater than recorded campaign contributions. link

Also Fly must be done with Law school now...fml I'm old
kimoser22 is offline  

 
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online