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Old 02-11-2019, 08:05 PM   #101
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re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Is it ever permissible to use the phrase "pound of flesh" to evoke the unsavoriness of retributivism?

Or was it just the context of the neonazi demonstration that triggered the characterisation?
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:11 PM   #102
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re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

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Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
Is it ever permissible to use the phrase "pound of flesh" to evoke the unsavoriness of retributivism?

Or was it just the context of the neonazi demonstration that triggered the characterisation?
Given that the origin of that was the Merchant of Venice which itself was pretty ****ing antisemitic, one best proceed with caution when using that phrase to describe a situation involving a Jewish person...
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:12 PM   #103
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re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

Fine, what do others feel is a more appropriate title?
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:12 PM   #104
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re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

full disagree that it was antisemitic. definitely was about money running politics. her apology could have better explained her meaning. and people are super quick to attack her because she's muslim, which is not in the least surprising because they expect her to not like jewish people. if i said the exact same "it's all about the benjamin's" no one would bat an eye.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:13 PM   #105
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re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

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Given that the origin of that was the Merchant of Venice which itself was pretty ****ing antisemitic, one best proceed with caution when using that phrase to describe a situation involving a Jewish person...
The context was pretty gross also. Itís AIDS posting any way you look at it.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:13 PM   #106
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re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

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Fine, what do others feel is a more appropriate title?
controversial

distasteful

potentially antisemitic

Something along those lines...
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:14 PM   #107
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re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

ftr I'm an MOT, the offspring of clergy, and formerly a tyg advisor and hebrew school teacher, so I'm really not trolling when I say that

it might actually be more antisemitic to refuse to distinguish the phrase itself from the archetypal character uttering it, as though branding it (the phrase/talisman, cue Indiana Jones nazi) upon the trope and thereby uniting them
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:19 PM   #108
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

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Originally Posted by DeuceKicker View Post
I thought this was pretty much the consensus take, which makes the choice of thread title unfortunate.
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Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Agree. I don't think she meant any harm and I don't take offense. Like 2p2 politics is no big deal, but I don't think the thread title is fair (despite thinking it's fair to discuss the issue) and jman should change it.
+1 from another secular-ish American Jew who is super-not comfortable with much of Israel's conduct but is also very sensitive to and worried about the seeming rise of casual anti-Semitism.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:20 PM   #109
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

"ilhan omar apologizes for factually correct tweet conveniently perceived as anti-Semitic by blazing hypocrites"
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:23 PM   #110
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

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Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
Is it ever permissible to use the phrase "pound of flesh" to evoke the unsavoriness of retributivism?

Or was it just the context of the neonazi demonstration that triggered the characterisation?
I'm not sure it ever is possible to use the phrase and just ignore anti-semitism, other than through pure ignorance I guess.

But, yeah, the context more than that. It was using an anti-semitic trope against people who were criticizing people marching in the streets chanting "Jews will not replace us" (and murdering people too).
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:24 PM   #111
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

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How so? She apologized for it, implicitly admitting that it was antisemitic. The thread title is appropriate.
Cool post implicitly admitting you will validate the Trump rule of never apology for anything.

Can we change the Trump thread to the Antisemitic Presidency of Donald J Trump or do only people who apology get such harsh treatment?
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:27 PM   #112
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Re: "Get used to me slaying": The Journal of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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I really hate being on the same side of an issue as Chyme. That said, it’s pretty clear the initial tweet about money *probably* didn’t reference the measly 3.5 billion or whatever that AIPAC gives, especially when weighed against other groups, and *probably* was in fact a dig at all of us wealthy Jewish people pulling the strings behind the scenes like every other anti-Semitic trope since the beginning of time. That said, whatever, she apologized, and she’s in the party that isn’t supported by literal nazis right now, so meh.
I think looking and guffawing at "only 3.5 million" shows a poor understanding of how influence is wieldee by various lobbying organizations.

Omar was clearly against money in politics, her critics want to paint her as anti semitic.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:27 PM   #113
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

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Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
ftr I'm an MOT, the offspring of clergy, and formerly a tyg advisor and hebrew school teacher, so I'm really not trolling when I say that

it might actually be more antisemitic to refuse to distinguish the phrase itself from the archetypal character uttering it, as though branding it (the phrase/talisman, cue Indiana Jones nazi) upon the trope and thereby uniting them
Ok, this is probably out of line in some way, but "clergy"?
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:29 PM   #114
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

How's my pony doing? The Intercept's top story right now is this:

https://theintercept.com/2019/02/11/...y-documentary/

Pro-Israel Lobby Caught on Tape Boasting That It's Money Influences Washington


Quote:
David Ochs, founder of HaLev, which helps send young people to AIPAC’s annual conference, described for the reporter how AIPAC and its donors organize fundraisers outside the official umbrella of the organization, so that the money doesn’t show up on disclosures as coming specifically from AIPAC. He describes one group that organizes fundraisers in both Washington and New York. “This is the biggest ad hoc political group, definitely the wealthiest, in D.C.,” Ochs says, adding that it has no official name, but is clearly tied to AIPAC. “It’s the AIPAC group. It makes a difference, it really, really does. It’s the best bang for your buck and the networking is phenomenal.” (Ochs and AIPAC did not immediately return The Intercept’s requests for comment.)



In the censored documentary, Ochs went on to describe a fundraiser hosted by Jeff Talpins, a hedge fund giant, as similar, as well. “In New York, with Jeff Talpins, we don’t ask a goddamn thing about the ****ing Palestinians. You know why? Cuz it’s a tiny issue. It’s a small, insignificant issue. The big issue is Iran. We want everything focused on Iran,” Ochs says. “What happens is Jeff meets with the congressman in the back room, tells them exactly what his goals are — and by the way, Jeff Talpins is worth $250 million — basically they hand him an envelope with 20 credit cards, and say, You can swipe each of these credit cards for a thousand dollars each.”



Eric Gallagher, a top official at AIPAC from 2010 to 2015, tells the [undercover] Al Jazeera reporter that AIPAC gets results. “Getting $38 billion in security aid to Israel matters, which is what AIPAC just did,” he notes at one secretly recorded lunch. “Everything AIPAC does is focused on influencing Congress.”
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:31 PM   #115
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

So the Republicans are clamoring for her to lose all her committee assignments.

What she said was not in any way comparable to Steve King. He straight up said white supremacy is cool. Until she starts tweeting support for antisemitism maybe time to wrap this one up.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:33 PM   #116
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

I'd just take Ilhan out of the threat title completely.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:33 PM   #117
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

I was completely unaware of the context of "pound of flesh" before this thread.

themoreyouknow.png
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:46 PM   #118
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

I didn't use the phrase

Quote:
against people who were criticizing people marching in the streets chanting "Jews will not replace us"
I used it against people clamoring for the blood of the sick kid who drove his car into a crowd of people.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:53 PM   #119
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

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Ok, this is probably out of line in some way, but "clergy"?
Were your parents cantors or something and you didn't think people would understand?
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:55 PM   #120
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

In case it's not clear from my earlier, diminishing quip, I don't think her tweet was offensive at all.

I wasn't offended by it, anyway, and I think to be offended by it you have to try/want to be.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:56 PM   #121
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

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Were your parents cantors or something and you didn't think people would understand?
Yes
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:58 PM   #122
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

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Originally Posted by Pwn_Master View Post
Cool post implicitly admitting you will validate the Trump rule of never apology for anything.

Can we change the Trump thread to the Antisemitic Presidency of Donald J Trump or do only people who apology get such harsh treatment?
Lol? Would you like a catalog of past President Trump Thread Titles?
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:58 PM   #123
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

If you don't think the pro-Israel* lobby's spending plays a significant role, consider that Bob Menendez is (a) a major Israel hawk (sponsored legislation to literally throw people in jail for a newly created felony of boycotting Israel), (b) a top recipient of pro-Israel lobbying dollars, and (c) was already indicted for bribery and formally admonished by the Senate for his pay-to-play activities in matters unrelated to Israel. Sure maybe his stances on Israel result from his deeply held principles, but these three facts taken together don't exactly inspire confidence.

*I'm using the phrase "pro-Israel" only because it's common at OpenSecrets and elsewhere. It refers to favoring the rightwing policy agenda of Likud and is not meant to suggest that every "pro-Israel" person (in the normal sense) automatically supports terrible rightwing policies.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:00 PM   #124
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

What I get from this thread is that antisemitism continues to be alive and well amongst all political parties and political persuasions in 2019.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:05 PM   #125
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Re: A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

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Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
I didn't use the phrase



I used it against people clamoring for the blood of the sick kid who drove his car into a crowd of people.
He was 20 years old.

Do you get upset about calls for retribution against other sorts of terrorists?
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