Yeah. George Soros is also one of the biggest individual spenders in the world on trying to shape public and political opinion. Yeah, there are rich Jews who spend a lot of money on political stuff. There are rich Christians (Kochs, Mercers, etc) and Muslims (Saudi government and probably a bunch of Saudi, Kuwaiti and Qatari individuals) too. I'm glad for the most part there aren't a bunch of libs going around shouting (((ADELSON)))!

That's a clever way to tell me to **** off and that Jews just have to shut up.

I'll be more direct: **** off ohio lawyer, phony radical, and take your rolexes with you.

So Pelosi/Dem leadership now condemning the comments. Pelosi also blocked censure of Steve King, keep in mind.

This is a highly sensitive issue and language is important. I said AIPAC $ wasn't a main explanatory factory for Congressional support for Israel, which is support. You implied I said AIPAC $ isn't a major lobby factory for pro-Israeli influence in Washington. It's the biggest dedicated pro-Israel lobbying group in Washington! You took my factual statement and altered it so as to make it as if I said something absolutely ridiculous. I don't know if you did this on purpose or not.

Americans as a whole are overwhelmingly pro Israel. This is due to evangelicals looking to hasten the rapture, Islamophobia, military-industrial complex, perceived common values and yes guys like Sheldon Adelson & AIPAC are a factor.

Three months ago eleven Jews were gunned down because some dickwad believed in conspiracies about Jewish octopoidal control of U.S politics. So while normally you wouldn't go crazy about a MOC misattributing the cause of Congressional support for x, when we're dealing with such an incredibly dangerous stereotype, perhaps the most pernicious and deadly stereotype in human history, precision is paramount. Maybe you interpret it as a fair comment on AIPAC but others read it and go shoot up shuls.

I dunno man, all of the young and progressive Jews I follow on Twitter ("famous" or just friends or whatever) think criticism of what Omar said is ridiculous.

In my dumb uninformed pointless opinion the left in the UK and US should just ignore Israel until we start winning domestically. It should be waaaaay way down any reasonable priority list. Is Israel an evil ethnostate with a shocking human rights record? Sure. But no more so (in fact far less so) than many many other countries around the world. The focus on Israel just looks weird to an outsider and legitimately worries jewish people who should be natural allies of the left. Nothing you say is really going to change Bibi's mind so just avoid the whole mess.

I actually didn't think what she said was that bad. "It's all about the benjamins" is referring to the song and that lobbyists (in this case AIPAC) have an undue influence in American politics. But with her previously tweeting about "Israel has hypnotized the world, may Allah awaken the people and help them see the evil doings of Israel." it's obvious where she is coming from.

The prior tweet was bad (obviously), but I believe she retracted and apologized for it.

I understand not wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt, but AIPAC's stranglehold over both Dems and Republicans is a huge problem and can be seen by the everyone coming out of the woodwork to claim this current tweet as anti-Semitic and score brownie points with AIPAC.

That's not responsive to the post that you're quoting.

I don't doubt that criticism aimed at her is out of proportion and often in bad faith.

Wait, now you're saying her tweet was bad? Isn't that a criticism?

Do your young Jewish friends think that you are ridiculous?

Who does and does not get to criticize those tweets?

Ben Garrison is probably super conflicted right now.

He meant the "hypnotic" tweet sucked. But he also claimed bipartisan condemnation shows AIPAC's "stranglehold" over Congress which was ... not a great thing to say.

Yeah, fair enough upon rereading the interaction. I will say it is immensely frustrating to see (mostly older and less progressive) Jews immediately slam her and pile on for this just to align with AIPAC against one of the first Muslim women in Congress.

This is exactly what should NOT be happening.

The tweet from 2012 or whatever was bad, not the Benjamins tweet.

Don't understand your second sentence at all and how it's relevant.

People can criticize whatever they want, but they can also be criticized in return.

Pretty hard to fight against the fact that AIPAC has a strangehold (obviously because you like to read into **** for no reason, to be clear, this is on US/Israel relations) in terms of influence in Congress compared to other, more liberal lobby groups like J Street, etc.

No need to read into **** that isn't there. BTW, are you American? Are you Jewish?

95%+ of the reason Congress is pro-Israel is orthogonal to AIPAC/money. That's why "stranglehold" is so offensive (and btw an octopus strangling countries is a standard anti-Semitic trope. I'm not saying you meant it that way. Just FYI). Like you think Congressmen are condemning Omar because of AIPAC $? AIPAC doesn't even give money directly to candidates!!!!!!

Is there any other minority group when the left would widely assume bad faith and resort to "but I found some of x who agree with my position it's a shame the rest of x are so bad"? In the Northam/blackface thing we actually saw white people "overreact" (can't think of a better word) and support Northam's resignation at a higher % than black people. Jews for some reason are always assumed to be casting false aspersions about anti-Semitism in order to defend Israel. It's incredibly frustrating.

I've lived half way adult life in America and am Jewish.

Champ,

I don't think that you are in any way an anti-semite. I don't condemn you or that post that you just made. I think you're a good poster, I agree with you most of the time, I like you, and I'm glad that you are around. But I think the notion that AIPAC has a stranglehold on Congress is untrue and anti-Semitic.

just to make it clear

I disagree.

Reiterating the tweet above, I find it ridiculous to associate AIPAC with all Jews and thus criticism of it as anti-Semitic.

Just to be clear, as a Jew, I find the notion that AIPAC = Jews = Israel (something along those lines) offensive and anti-Semitic.

She apologized for the tweet but you think she changed her mind on the idea that "Israel has hypnotized the world" or any other anti-semitic crap she probably believes?

But yes the groupthink of current US policy towards Israel is harmful to both the US and Israel IMO.

Nukes in the dessert? Well... er... an actual bomb in the bombe surprise has already been thought of. See this movie scene, featuring my old college roommate Robert's Edinburgh auntie's former coalman Tommy ('The handsomest man I ever saw in my life, and didn't he know it'), who later changed his first name to Sean when he became an actor.

It’s not inherently antisemetic to criticize AIPAC, but Ilhan obviously needs to be way more careful how things are framed.

Glad to see we've got the nuclear lobby reading this thread now.

No, people think it's anti-Semitic because it's vastly over inflating the power of a mostly Jewish organisation and implying it uses this hidden, pernicious power to control politicians and make them do their bidding. It just so happens that claims Jewish people use massive hidden pernicious powers to control politicians to do their (Jews) bidding is like the #1 anti-Semitic anecdote. I hate AIPAC, it doesn't talk for me, but that stereotype was used to justify transporting my grandfather's family to the gas chambers and hence I find it offensive when it's repackaged as "AIPAC" rather than "elders of zion" or whatever.

AIPAC sucks, but it doesn't have a stranglehold on the US government. The Israeli government sucks. It's pretty close to fascist. Reminds me of another government. One that aligns closely with Israel.