Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had? - Page 52 - Politics and Economics

As for the photo, let's apply the wife test: if that was your unconscious wife or girlfriend in the photo, would you want to punch Franken?

If so, he probably needs to step down.

11-16-2017 , 12:50 PM

#1277

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,734

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namath12

If he stuck his tongue down her throat without her consent that's assault

Gah, gross.

11-16-2017 , 12:53 PM

#1278

otatop

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 12,721

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib

As for the photo, let's apply the wife test: if that was your unconscious wife or girlfriend in the photo, would you want to punch Franken?

If so, he probably needs to step down.

Let's flip it around even: If it was a picture of a sleeping Al Franken with Hillary Clinton pretending to grab his dick, is it a nothingburger or a "Lock her up!"?

11-16-2017 , 12:56 PM

#1279

Nootka

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 5,656

Quote:

The definition includes the word "unwanted". They go on to explain it doesn't matter if you were wrong, intent is irrelevant, how it is received is the only thing that matters

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiltedDonkey

God damn, that is a terrible way to write a rule.

It's not the rule, at least not the way he's written it there. He's right that the conduct doesn't need to be intentional. But there's a "reasonable person" component of the definition, which means that conduct doesn't amount to sexual harassment if it wouldn't offend a reasonable woman in the same situation. So, it's not entirely dependent on the subjective feelings of the victim.

11-16-2017 , 01:01 PM

#1280

markksman

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By the way a theater in London where Spacey was Artistic Director for ten years did an investigation and found 20 incidents of harassment / assault.

It’s not really surprising when this stuff just keeps piling up on these guys. The chances some guy harassed or assaulted just one person one time is really tiny if they did not get caught the first time.

11-16-2017 , 01:11 PM

#1281

NMcNasty

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,990

Just going to go ahead and assume Franken is a serial rapist. Assuming that accusations like this are exaggerated one time incidents doesn't really have a great track record.

11-16-2017 , 01:13 PM

#1282

SuperUberBob

Not interesting enough

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 48,217

Floodgates are opening in the UK as well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_W...exual_scandals

Turns out that every rich man in power like to sexually harass women. Only a matter of time before the political equivalent of Jimmy Saville is found in office.

11-16-2017 , 01:20 PM

#1283

Zimmer4141

Wet

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 33,667

To me the kissing when she wanted no part of it and it wasn't with the intent of making anybody else laugh because it was just the two of them, that's the worst part of this.

Given that the photo happened after their relationship turned sour due to Franken's unwanted advances, the photo def takes more of a menacing tone than joking tone. I don't think he's groping her in the photo, I think his hands are just placed there to make it look like he is. Which again, is inappropriate and not funny, but not sexual assault.

11-16-2017 , 01:28 PM

#1284

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zimmer4141

but not sexual assault.

It is absolutely sexual assault.

first Google result:

https://www.self.com/story/sexual-assault-definition

Quote:

According to the United States Department of Justice, sexual assault is “any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient.”

Before jurisdictional nits come in, yes, depending on what state you are in it may not be assault according to that specific state's laws.

11-16-2017 , 01:31 PM

#1285

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,514

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namath12

If he stuck his tongue down her throat without her consent that's assault

Yep.

11-16-2017 , 01:33 PM

#1286

TrollyWantACracker

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 4,184

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

Before jurisdictional nits come in, yes, depending on what state you are in it may not be assault according to that specific state's laws.

They were in the Middle East apparently, so I assume sharia law calls for her to be stoned to death.

11-16-2017 , 01:35 PM

#1287

SuperUberBob

Not interesting enough

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 48,217

Zimmer, making a moralistic or legalistic argument that what Al did isn't sexual assault is not a good look. It 100% is and he should step down.

I guess the fear is that if senators start resigning for allegations of sexual assault/harassment that there'll be 10 senators remaining in Congress by the end of this year.

11-16-2017 , 01:36 PM

#1288

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib

it's kind of a tricky situation, because yeah you can see shadows under his hands, but who knows what happened immediately before or after the shot? Pretty bad look to invade someone's space like that even if you don't cop a feel

Wat? No one knows so there isn’t much point speculating. Her testimony is that she was asleep and saw this picture after the fact. There were plenty of other people on that plane who will be interviewed about what happened and then we’ll know what happened before and after the pic.

11-16-2017 , 01:36 PM

#1289

Loki

binary duo

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 12,772

Are there really only ten women senators?

11-16-2017 , 01:38 PM

#1290

NMcNasty

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,990

Just because I can't resist the urge to be a nit, she actually did explicitly give consent to the kiss (part of rehearsal). Problem was that it was overly forceful. But again, I don't really care to defend Franken in the least here.

11-16-2017 , 01:39 PM

#1291

TrollyWantACracker

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 4,184

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperUberBob

I have long been a proponent for banning men from political office. If that ends up being the de-facto result of all this I would call it one hell of a silver lining.

11-16-2017 , 01:39 PM

#1292

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,514

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zimmer4141

Yep. He's persecuting her and already knew she wanted no part of him. It's not an innocent joke after the tongue incident.

11-16-2017 , 01:42 PM

#1293

Loki

binary duo

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 12,772

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMcNasty

It definitely sounds like he coerced her and was massively creepy, before the assault portion. Almost like maybe he wrote a bit that included kissing just so he could have an excuse to stick his tongue down her throat.

Personal story: in middle school, our class put on a production and the lead male was supposed to kiss the lead female at the end of the show. I ended up getting the lead. We did not practice the kiss scene ever. When we did the show live, the girl was uncomfortable with the idea of kissing, so we just hugged.

Somehow I’ve never been accused of sexually assaulting someone. Go figure.

11-16-2017 , 01:45 PM

#1294

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zimmer4141

Obviously depends on how aware Franken was of the relationship. If she just avoided being alone with him or talking to him without being spoken to first he may not have thought anything about it. This is interesting because if we take both people at there word the incidents severity changes a lot.

If this happened as she remembers is it enough to force Franken to step down? I don’t know. We’ll see if anyone else comes forward I guess.

11-16-2017 , 01:52 PM

#1295

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib

Personal story: in middle school, our class put on a production and the lead male was supposed to kiss the lead female at the end of the show. I ended up getting the lead. We did not practice the kiss scene ever. When we did the show live, the girl was uncomfortable with the idea of kissing, so we just hugged.

Somehow I’ve never been accused of sexually assaulting someone. Go figure.

How do you know she didn’t want to kiss you? Franken may well have wore her down asking to rehearse the scene, but that’s not how he remembers it. From his POV he asked to rehearse a scene and took the kiss too far, when told that he didn’t do it again despite how ever many times the did the scene on the tour. What he did was bad but how bad depends on who you believe and how much.

11-16-2017 , 01:54 PM

#1296

Huehuecoyotl

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Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrollyWantACracker

I have long been a proponent for banning men from political office. If that ends up being the de-facto result of all this I would call it one hell of a silver lining.

Ben Shapiro is ahead of you but doesn't quit arrive at the conclusion you would think

11-16-2017 , 01:57 PM

#1297

SuperUberBob

Not interesting enough

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 48,217

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib

Are there really only ten women senators?

21. I just made up ten on the fly.

But hey, maybe some men will come forward about touchy-feely female Senators. Who knows?

11-16-2017 , 01:59 PM

#1298

batair

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

That is disappointing Franken.

11-16-2017 , 02:00 PM

#1299

TrollyWantACracker

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 4,184

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

Ben Shapiro is ahead of you but doesn't quit arrive at the conclusion you would think

No dice. Robot politicians are guaranteed to be men.

11-16-2017 , 02:22 PM

#1300

Loki

binary duo

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 12,772

It is funny seeing so many deplorables split on if they should side with the accuser because Franken is a dem or stand on the side of male privilege because bitches be lyin'.

I thought ***** was filtered. Oh, it is, but bitches isn’t.

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