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Old 10-20-2017, 11:08 AM   #101
TrollyWantACracker
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

What if she is your boss? Seems like a little romance in that arena could pay career dividends. Keep in mind, I give amazing backrubs.
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Old 10-20-2017, 11:10 AM   #102
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Sex and job?

NO, in capital letters!

Talking about direct action.
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Old 10-20-2017, 11:12 AM   #103
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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there are other outcomes than those 3 though. they relate to how other people at the job interact with you and your wife. will you be in positions where you could be accused of favoritism? either with regards to promotions or just ideas. are you on a team where you always side with your wife/gf/partner pertaining to the direction the team or project is taking?
These are valid points but all seem to build on the "dating at work is a bad idea" notion.
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:23 PM   #104
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Even the "good" outcomes of workplace relationships still kinda suck. If one of you gets into a supervisory role, that's hella problematic. Even if it works out, do you really want to be with your SO all day long every day? That just seems stifling.
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:41 PM   #105
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Even the "good" outcomes of workplace relationships still kinda suck. If one of you gets into a supervisory role, that's hella problematic. Even if it works out, do you really want to be with your SO all day long every day? That just seems stifling.
Also the whole 'you spend all day with people, it just happens' reveals a startling lack of agency. Dating at work is obviously a choice. Normal people can control their libidinal and romantic impulses. I'm not saying it's a perfect circle on a Venn Diagram but the kinda of people who claim they have no impulse control over who they develop romantic and sexual feelings for is going to cluster around people with boundary and self control issues and imo are just the kind of people who are likely to engage in harassment. If I had an employee who admitted they can fall in love with someone just by working with them and they saw dating as just a natural and unavoidable next step, that'd be a huge red flag.

I acknowledge it absolutely does happen (workplace romances). And that they're probably kinda common. I ain't denying reality. But that's the point: it's why harassment at work and other forms of sexual predation are common. That's not to say predation underlies all workplace romances but that people (including women) have these bizarre, startling life ethics that seems to assume love and romance and sex are uncontrollable urges and the workplace is a sometimes appropriate outlet for it.

Go to work with the mindset and dedication to do productive work things and not to find a **** buddy, and marvel at how harassment is a total non issue.

Last edited by DVaut1; 10-20-2017 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:43 PM   #106
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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there are other outcomes than those 3 though. they relate to how other people at the job interact with you and your wife. will you be in positions where you could be accused of favoritism? either with regards to promotions or just ideas. are you on a team where you always side with your wife/gf/partner pertaining to the direction the team or project is taking?
Also if you're socially maladept you could violate norms you don't fully understand and end up getting fired from your job and run out of the entire industry. But you might get laid, so...
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:47 PM   #107
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Old 10-21-2017, 09:02 PM   #108
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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This is a pretty perfect example of sexual harassment from a guy's perspective. No social awareness, zero attempt to understand the woman's experience (do you really think she reported you because you glanced at her computer screen?), really no lessons learned except that you bitterly assume sexual harassment is just like a random number generator where women will occasionally decide you are a bad guy and try to ruin your life.

We were talking about social norms v legal enforcement in the other thread on this, and this is a great example of the need to change social norms at a very basic level. We don't teach men basic social skills, never drill out the toddler era narcissism, and end up with millions of dudes just barreling through life without even the slimmest realization that other people exist.

In terms of actual, individual advice here: There are therapists who specialize in teaching people how to navigate social situations. You should seek one out because, regardless of the actual specifics of your firing, you have a very poisonous view of social interaction.
Actually, its not remotely a good example of sexual harassment in the legal sense. Sexual harassment is a term of art used to explain a specific gender discrimination claim. Sjws batter the term aoound as if it encompasses every type of sexual misconduct in the workplace. Coworker hitting on coworker ishould not have created a firing event and may not qualify as SH.

The rest of your drivel ie, "we dont teach men basic social skills" mantra is just garbage armchair psychology by a liberal sjw female who thinks she knows more than she does.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:29 PM   #109
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Pretty sure that everyone who's taken Iron to task in this thread does not believe he told the whole story, and he's even given a wishy-washy admission of such himself.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:50 PM   #110
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
Even the "good" outcomes of workplace relationships still kinda suck. If one of you gets into a supervisory role, that's hella problematic. Even if it works out, do you really want to be with your SO all day long every day? That just seems stifling.
Depends on a lot of things. There are plenty of family-owned businesses where SOs work alongside each other.

If I was working in a small business where I was in constant contact with my SO then it would definitely be annoying for me. If I was in a large corporation where I rarely saw her then it wouldn't be bad.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:49 AM   #111
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

this guy


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Actually, its not remotely a good example of sexual harassment in the legal sense. Sexual harassment is a term of art used to explain a specific gender discrimination claim. Sjws batter the term aoound as if it encompasses every type of sexual misconduct in the workplace. Coworker hitting on coworker ishould not have created a firing event and may not qualify as SH.

The rest of your drivel ie, "we dont teach men basic social skills" mantra is just garbage armchair psychology by a liberal sjw female who thinks she knows more than she does.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:05 AM   #112
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Took a while for a bona fide MRA to show up.
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Old 10-22-2017, 05:04 AM   #113
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Pretty sure that everyone who's taken Iron to task in this thread does not believe he told the whole story, and he's even given a wishy-washy admission of such himself.
That seems 100% consistent with the behavior of a sexual harasser. A certain inability to see one's actions for what they are is part and parcel of such behavior.
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:43 AM   #114
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

My brother married someone from work, but work is Boeing, it's a massive company and they aren't in the same department/facility although I think they might have been when they met.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:49 AM   #115
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Another Hollywood director is accused of sexual harassment by 30 women. This guy turns the sexual harassment up to 11 immediately. I would have thought a lot of this kind of stuff would happen after a few dates, both have a few drinks and the guy gets forceful or wierd. Instead its like, "Hi I'm a Hollywood director" *starts humping her leg*

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...018-story.html
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:11 AM   #116
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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These are valid points but all seem to build on the "dating at work is a bad idea" notion.
It carries a far greater risk than dating someone from outside work, but I think your analysis is way off.

Chemistry happens in unpredictable ways between people, and when you consider how many more people you come into regular contact with in the workplace than outside (especially if project based) just saying "Avoid it" is way too blunt. I have friends who met at work and married who would naturally disagree vehemently with this , though it is a good idea not to work in the same team/department for long.

Last edited by jalfrezi; 10-22-2017 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:47 AM   #117
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
Actually, its not remotely a good example of sexual harassment in the legal sense. Sexual harassment is a term of art used to explain a specific gender discrimination claim. Sjws batter the term aoound as if it encompasses every type of sexual misconduct in the workplace. Coworker hitting on coworker ishould not have created a firing event and may not qualify as SH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkubus View Post
Pretty sure that everyone who's taken Iron to task in this thread does not believe he told the whole story, and he's even given a wishy-washy admission of such himself.
This. If you took his post at face value, reconsider your priors.

Quote:
The rest of your drivel ie, "we dont teach men basic social skills" mantra is just garbage armchair psychology by a liberal sjw female who thinks she knows more than she does.
My drivel is supported by the scholarly research on gender socialization. Yours is supported by internet high fives from the comments sections of men's rights blogs.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:26 PM   #118
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

everybody: we need to radically restructure society to battle patriarchy
dvaut: maybe people should stop ****ing their coworkers?
everybody: whoa whoa whoa let's not get nuts here
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:38 PM   #119
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Also if you're socially maladept you could violate norms you don't fully understand and end up getting fired from your job and run out of the entire industry. But you might get laid, so...
I worked with a guy once who literally went after every single woman at work. No one escaped. He was super aggressive, making sexual insinuations, etc. but he stopped at the first serious no. It was like an email spammer. He seemed to use his harassing behavior as a filter to find the women who for whatever reason would give him a try. He was otherwise an interesting guy, also honest and hard working. However, he was just unbelievably ugly and short (think Joe Pesci in goodfellas, but disfigured).
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:03 PM   #120
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
Another Hollywood director is accused of sexual harassment by 30 women. This guy turns the sexual harassment up to 11 immediately. I would have thought a lot of this kind of stuff would happen after a few dates, both have a few drinks and the guy gets forceful or wierd. Instead its like, "Hi I'm a Hollywood director" *starts humping her leg*

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...018-story.html
Quote:
During these meetings, many of the women said, Toback boasted of sexual conquests with the famous and then asked humiliating personal questions. How often do you masturbate? How much pubic hair do you have? He’d tell them, they said, that he couldn’t properly function unless he “jerked off” several times a day. And then he’d dry-hump them or masturbate in front of them, ejaculating into his pants or onto their bodies and then walk away. Meeting over.
Wtf is it with these guys and masturbating in front of women? Just saying "it's a power thing" doesn't really provide any insight imo.

Last edited by suzzer99; 10-22-2017 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:10 PM   #121
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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I wonder if maybe they are trying to have full on sex, but as a consolation prize when they realize it's not happening they just jerk off or something. Maybe we only hear about the jerk offs because a lot more women are going to come forward with "he jerked off in front of me" vs. "I slept with him in hopes of jump-starting my career"?
Solid theory. If they become known as one who will sleep with directors to get ahead, then they'll be harassed by directors for the rest of their career.
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:11 PM   #122
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Yeah maybe with Weinstein. But I should have read the whole Toback article before posting. Clearly he just is a complete weirdo who gets off on coming in his pants in front of people.
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:09 AM   #123
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Originally Posted by lycosid View Post
This. If you took his post at face value, reconsider your priors.



My drivel is supported by the scholarly research on gender socialization. Yours is supported by internet high fives from the comments sections of men's rights blogs.
Your scholarly social "science" research won't pass any level of scrutiny, but i invite you to list the sources that support your idiotic conclusions.
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Old 10-25-2017, 01:02 AM   #124
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Your scholarly social "science" research won't pass any level of scrutiny, but i invite you to list the sources that support your idiotic conclusions.
Sexual harassment is so common that it barely needs research to know how big a problem it is. Recent BBC poll fund 53% / 20% of women/men have been sexually harassed at work. 63% / 79% of female/male victims didn't report it.

For 1 in 10 women it reached the level of a sexual assault.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41741615
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:05 AM   #125
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Now old man Bush is getting in on the act

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