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Old 10-18-2017, 03:19 PM   #26
OmgGlutten!
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

I honestly don't understand why women stay quiet about this stuff instead of just suing. Is it really that hard to find another job?
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Old 10-18-2017, 03:25 PM   #27
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Yes.

Also before they settle, the company will do everything they can to humiliate you.
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Old 10-18-2017, 03:30 PM   #28
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

I hope someone tweeted #metoo on behalf of all those potplants
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Old 10-18-2017, 03:39 PM   #29
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

In 2017 it is super easy to just video record this stuff. In most cases the harassment is repetitive. Most of these horror stories you hear about... the NYPD were the only ones who ever thought to record Harvey Weinstein?
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Old 10-18-2017, 03:46 PM   #30
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Originally Posted by OmgGlutten! View Post
I honestly don't understand why women stay quiet about this stuff instead of just suing. Is it really that hard to find another job?
It's really not them who should have to find another job but suing has itself been a very very hard path for the victims.

Part of the solution is making it easier for victims to sue.
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Old 10-18-2017, 03:49 PM   #31
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Originally Posted by iron81 View Post
A. I knew she had a boyfriend, don't recall what the order was.
B. Both, more so for coworkers.
C. I have extended that to all women. I'm one of the bottom quartile guys who DVaut joked about past society using as literal cannon fodder because there was nothing better to do with them. Usually it saves everyone a lot of stress if I keep to myself.
Have you tried being confident? Chicks love that.
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:15 PM   #32
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

I'm aware of three mid to upper level execs in my health care system (over 15 years or so) who got shown the door for harassment. Dunno if there were lawsuits/threats/payouts, but I think in health care because a fair # of the execs are former nurses (most of who are women), the tolerance for that sort of stuff is lower. Or maybe it's a sample size of one.

And the old advice about not ****ting where you eat still has value.

MM MD
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:34 PM   #33
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Originally Posted by iron81 View Post
A. I knew she had a boyfriend, don't recall what the order was.
B. Both, more so for coworkers.
C. I have extended that to all women. I'm one of the bottom quartile guys who DVaut joked about past society using as literal cannon fodder because there was nothing better to do with them. Usually it saves everyone a lot of stress if I keep to myself.
dont hit on women at work. dont mention their attractiveness or anything about their appearance or what they are wearing or even about their personalities.

this is how 90% of engineering environments operate. and even in more "open" workplaces this is how most men act anyway.

there is no reason to be depressed about it. engineering jobs are not for hooking up and very few ppl meet that way.

also, if you are lonely and feel like you are bottom of the barrel, you are clearly wrong. it seems you are unattractive physically, or at least feel that way. but lucky for you, most men are ugly so looks are not a hudge deal to women. and you have an engineering job so that is very worthwhile.

so if you want companionship, get on match or okcupid or whatever and look for a women. go for the ugly or fat women.

if you just want some snatch, go get a hooker.

but ffs dont go after women at an engineering job. that is just idiotic. even if you were don juan.
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:50 PM   #34
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

STEM chicks are crazy af. Def flirt with them as much as you can at work and strap on for a rollercoaster.
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Old 10-18-2017, 05:00 PM   #35
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Looks like our boy Louis CK might be a scumbag
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Old 10-18-2017, 05:21 PM   #36
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Originally Posted by A_C_Slater View Post
Apart from providing for one's children, getting the opportunity to fu*k women above your physical attractiveness value (PAV) is like the primary motive for working hard, tedious, or even dangerous jobs. Women should be happy with this state of affairs, as it means men are willing to do the dirty necessary jobs that allow basic civilization to function. For all their demands for workplace equality how many women do we see cleaning sewers, drilling for oil, or manufacturing steel? Ladies, are you really telling me having sex with a man below your PAV is worse than having to clean sh*t out of the sewers five days a week, every week, for the rest of your life?



Really ladies, men are so pathetic all you have to do is pleasure their little weiners from time to time and they will provide you with all resources at their disposal for life. And if they stop providing society allows you compensation in divorce court, half his worth will become yours. In their stubborn refusal to sublimate their egos, the modern woman must now subject herself to tedious fields like engineering and accounting. No wonder depression and suicide rates for Western world women are at all time highs. Just submit, let us let you live the good life again. We're begging you to take our money! The only question is, are you woman enough to take it?




Suicide stats:


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/h...year-high.html


"Suicide in the United States has surged to the highest levels in nearly 30 years, a federal data analysis has found, with increases in every age group except older adults. The rise was particularly steep for women. It was also substantial among middle-aged Americans, sending a signal of deep anguish from a group whose suicide rates had been stable or falling since the 1950s.

The suicide rate for middle-aged women, ages 45 to 64, jumped by 63 percent over the period of the study, while it rose by 43 percent for men in that age range, the sharpest increase for males of any age.
You've got some serious issues. Seek professional help.
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Old 10-18-2017, 05:32 PM   #37
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Originally Posted by Namath12 View Post
Looks like our boy Louis CK might be a scumbag
Isn't that another of those entertainment industry non-secrets? Like that he likes to drop his pants in front of women and jerk off or whatever?:

http://defamer.gawker.com/louis-c-k-...d-s-1687820755

This is a 2 year old link. This is a 5 year old story where everyone guessed quickly that it's Louis CK:

http://gawker.com/5894527/which-belo...89921#comments

This isn't "oh this is old news, let's dismiss it." Just another example of how these sorts of stories are basically industry-wide knowledge but fall down memory holes and then reemerge into the zeitgeist ala Bill Cosby.
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Old 10-18-2017, 05:52 PM   #38
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Originally Posted by iron81 View Post
A. I knew she had a boyfriend, don't recall what the order was.
B. Both, more so for coworkers.
C. I have extended that to all women. I'm one of the bottom quartile guys who DVaut joked about past society using as literal cannon fodder because there was nothing better to do with them. Usually it saves everyone a lot of stress if I keep to myself.
I'm not here for a pep talk but just in case anyone cares that deeply, you're probably not quite who I meant. I'll take your ratings of your personal attractiveness or social skills at face value or whatever. But if you're a smarter guy in a STEM field, now and into the past, those sorts of skills have long been useful to society. You wouldn't have been the first batch sent off to die in most cases imo.

The more likely cannon fodder types were dudes who yeah, are maybe ugly but also lacked social and productive skills. My point was simply that it wasn't merely like physical strength or fighting capabilities of men that provided group-selection style incentives to send men off to battle -- but also their disposability. I am but an amateur social anthropologist but I think people who have studied primate aggression in fission-fusion social systems have seen similar patterns and speculated about its origins -- a mix of circumstance (e.g., resource constraints like dwindling food) providing the primary incentive but then social hierarchies determining who does the fighting and dying from there.

I had a bit of a larger point that as automation increases, the productive uses of men decreases, and social skills writ large erode due to distracted and disinterested parents leaving their kids to fend for themselves sitting around playing video games or whatever (whereas past generations, kids of disinterested parents were forced into more social scenarios) -- the gnawing, even subconscious fears of men may come to the fore and their nihilist tendencies unleashed. Anyway if you were some kind of engineer, I didn't mean quite you, but if you were fired for sexual harassment, maybe I did mean you a little bit.

Lastly: agree with most other takes that trying to find dates at your workplace is usually just an awful idea in almost any context even if I can agree it's sort of common enough. Being seen as a creep is obviously one risk but others are that things work out well enough to start but then eventually go downhill. It's a bad career idea even if you're not fired for harassment. There's frankly wise warnings about dipping the pen in company ink for a reason.

Last edited by DVaut1; 10-18-2017 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 10-18-2017, 06:39 PM   #39
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namath12 View Post
Looks like our boy Louis CK might be a scumbag
That's been one of those open secrets that everybody knew but didn't say anything about. There were stories going back about that for years.
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Old 10-18-2017, 06:53 PM   #40
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namath12 View Post
Looks like our boy Louis CK might be a scumbag
This stuff has been out for so long, and no one really knows exactly what it is. Like, it's based on a Gawker blind item, and a story Jen Kirkman told on a podcast that she later sort-of-retracted (rather, she 'clarified' that she hadn't said what she had in fact said).

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/jen...rs-1201878243/

Roseanne Barr said a couple of years ago that she'd 'heard so many stories' about him, but had no first hand knowledge of specific incidents.

Also in 2015, a random guy emailed Louis' public email saying (paraphrase) 'why do you sexually assault female comics by taking your dick out in front of them', based on what he'd heard from two women he knew. And Louis emailed back, then called him up. The guy 'characterized their conversation as stilted and non-substantive. His interpretation was that C.K. was “sizing me up” to “find out what I had heard.”'

http://defamer.gawker.com/louis-c-k-...d-s-1687820755



Then there's Tig Notaro, who used to be pretty close with him, but now...isn't.

Quote:
“I have not spoken to Louis in probably going on two years now. I will never hear from Louis C.K. again,” Notaro told The Hollywood Reporter.

Notaro has said there was “an incident” before “One Mississippi” went into production that kept C.K. from ever contributing to the series. “He’s never been involved,” Notaro said of the man still listed in the opening credits as an executive producer of Season 2.
There's an episode of her show where a guy sitting behind a desk starts masturbating while having a conversation with her, that I haven't seen but people obviously think refers to him.

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/lou...de-1201875894/

--

CK doesn't really talk about this stuff but last month he said:

Quote:
“I’m not going to answer to that stuff, because they’re rumors,” C.K. told The New York Times in an interview published Monday. “If you actually participate in a rumor, you make it bigger and you make it real.”

“So it’s not real?” C.K. was asked. “No,” he responded. “They’re rumors, that’s all that is.”
http://ew.com/tv/2017/09/11/louis-ck...al-misconduct/

--

So form your own conclusion. I used to be skeptical because it was all vague allusions and rumours and hearsay. But now...he's definitely shady, it's really just the extent that's up for debate.

--

Also, if you've read all that, now feel uncomfortable, and want to feel a lot more so - the trailer for his new movie was released today:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYs8CKkrp-Q

It's weird. I presume it's supposed to make me feel weird and gross and creeped out but...hmm

--

Sorry for this Louis CK megapost but whenever this comes up people are like 'wait what did he do again? Didn't that all go away? Was it bull**** or nah?' so I thought I'd lay it all out.
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:03 PM   #41
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

It's like a Woody Allen movie.
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:29 PM   #42
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron81 View Post
I'm not a new poster, but I got a take that's at least warm.

I was fired from my engineering job for harassing a woman. My harassment amounted to hinting in a non crude way that I was attracted to her and looking at her computer screen which contained an IM conversation with her boyfriend. They were also unwilling to give me a reference, thus that was the end of my career.

My take from this is that, at least among the plebes, the mid level corporate types do take this seriously. One cannot reasonably express any kind of interest in coworkers unless she feels the same way. So basically, the norms don't need to change much and Weinstein getting away with it for a while is an exception, not the rule.

The epilogue to this story is that afterward, if I was interested in a woman, I had to weigh the low chance she would reciprocate against the high chance she would be offended and tweet #MeToo. This sucked for me.
This is a pretty perfect example of sexual harassment from a guy's perspective. No social awareness, zero attempt to understand the woman's experience (do you really think she reported you because you glanced at her computer screen?), really no lessons learned except that you bitterly assume sexual harassment is just like a random number generator where women will occasionally decide you are a bad guy and try to ruin your life.

We were talking about social norms v legal enforcement in the other thread on this, and this is a great example of the need to change social norms at a very basic level. We don't teach men basic social skills, never drill out the toddler era narcissism, and end up with millions of dudes just barreling through life without even the slimmest realization that other people exist.

In terms of actual, individual advice here: There are therapists who specialize in teaching people how to navigate social situations. You should seek one out because, regardless of the actual specifics of your firing, you have a very poisonous view of social interaction.
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:48 PM   #43
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

I think it's important to not generalize my lack of social skills to all men.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:08 PM   #44
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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I think it's important to not generalize my lack of social skills to all men.
How much do you think you could have benefited from some education on gender/social issues being the norm in schools?
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:14 PM   #45
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

I think my conscious views are close to what they would have taught anyway.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:17 PM   #46
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Your views now or those before you lost your job and realised you ****ed up because she went to HR?
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:19 PM   #47
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

before
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:26 PM   #48
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
STEM chicks are crazy af. Def flirt with them as much as you can at work and strap on for a rollercoaster.
That's a good troll.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:27 PM   #49
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

Ok. I'm struggling to reconcile that with you recognising that you ****ed up and now behave differently.

Maybe you think the education would be terrible - that could be true.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:32 PM   #50
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Re: Is there a sexual harassment conversation to be had?

I generally avoided people before this incident as well, it was motivated on my part by pure desperation. It mostly served to reinforce my existing practice, though I don't recall if I was self aware enough to generate my posts itt.
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