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Are There Flaws In Daniel Negreanu's Israel/Palestine Post? Are There Flaws In Daniel Negreanu's Israel/Palestine Post?

08-04-2014 , 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33
I think his conclusion is that when you have one side of a conflict with zero interest in peace, there can be no peace. Which seems a reasonable conclusion to me.
^ this sums it up better than thousands of posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yocrackattack
I think everyone is missing the point here- you're arguing about the wrong thing. Daniel Negreanu made a HUGE blunder in writing that tweet.

1. "I 100% support Israel's fight against terrorists" (or something to that effect) is a totally usueless statement. Totally. It's like saying "I 100% support police officers in their fight against crime". Well.....no ****! You can substitute X for Israel and no one will argue with you- no one. 'Terrorists' = bad/undesirable and no one wants them around. Now you can argue about who the terrorists are, but not about your fight against them.

2. Now, making that statement in a particular moment and you've got some serious implications behind your words. If the very day after the Rodney King beatings you go on twitter and say "I 100% support police officers in their fight against crime" then you're now saying something else- you're saying "I totally agree with 4 cops beating the **** out of some poor black dude." When Mr. Naive Poker Player goes on twitter and makes that tweet he IS saying I agree with bombing the **** out of Gaza, killing kids, and I quote "100%" everything Israel is doing in its campaign.

I stated earlier that you are all missing the point. I havent read this whole thread but did read Sklansky's first post and he said he was not swayed by the media in his decisions. But the sad truth is that we are all swayed whether we know it or not. Everyone in this thread is saying A or B- Palestine or Israel. But there is not only C, but D, E, F and so on. At the very core of all of this is the fact that humans dont seem to learn from history. How many times have we benefited from hate and killing? Jews of all people should remember well what hate can do. For every little girl that is killed on either side there will be more and more hate growing on the other; and the cycle will continue. More reasons for all of this revolve around money, politics (naturally) and a too-often overlooked cause of angst/divisiveness which is religion (oooooh I know).

Anyway, this is getting long and my main point was to show what a naive, thoughtless and hurtful thing D.N. vomited onto our minds.

"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind." -Mahatma Ghandi
DN's remarks are not naive or thoughtless or vomited onto our minds. Your statement is radical as opposed to the Ghandi quote, which encourages calm and reflection.
08-04-2014 , 02:38 PM
Eye for an eye suggests identical repercussions for violence. This is so far from the reality in the region unfortunately. The only people who will ever be blind are the Palestinians.
08-04-2014 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by abnormal
Maybe Hamas is just incompetent.
Obviously they are super incompetent. There is no maybe about it.

Why destroy Gaza, killing innocent citizens, creating humanitarian crisis including the displacement of 300k people, when the "enemy" can't really get to you? If you have such command of the situation, as Israel does, why not try to create the situation you want?

Oh, wait. That is exactly what they are doing.
08-04-2014 , 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33
I think his conclusion is that when you have one side of a conflict with zero interest in peace, there can be no peace. Which seems a reasonable conclusion to me.
okay I was looking for some conclusion about the justifiability of the current actions.

If DN's conclusion above meant anything much in the current context then it must mean the killing of innocents is unacceptable as either way one side will still want to fight and hence there will be no peace.

The problem is DN's conclusion doesn't mean anything much as there are many sides, the sides are not fixed and peace is not binary. That's even assuming one side has no interest in peace.
08-04-2014 , 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yocrackattack
If the very day after the Rodney King beatings you go on twitter and say "I 100% support police officers in their fight against crime" then you're now saying something else- you're saying "I totally agree with 4 cops beating the **** out of some poor black dude."
False. Just because some rogue cops happened to beat up someone the day before you make your statement doesn't mean you agree with their actions.
08-04-2014 , 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crane
False. Just because some rogue cops happened to beat up someone the day before you make your statement doesn't mean you agree with their actions.
You believe that in his analogy the person exclaiming "I 100% support police officers in their fight against crime" was supposed to be coincidental and not in reference to the beating???
08-04-2014 , 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14cobster
You believe that in his analogy the person exclaiming "I 100% support police officers in their fight against crime" was supposed to be coincidental and not in reference to the beating???
Do you believe that DN believes that innocent children should be killed when he says he is 100% in support of Israel's right to defend themselves?
08-04-2014 , 08:33 PM
Hey Daniel

In support of another "Canadian with an Attitude" who the F cares if people hate on you for your opinion. You have the right to one as much as anyone else and last time I checked it was still a free country.

Your a celebrity my friend and as such you need to grow thicker skin and realize that these ppl are always going to hate you no matter what you do.

As far as Israel / Palestine situation don't listen to any of these morons their opinions are exactly the same as yours = meaningless banter. Unless you live there nothing we say matters and even then you would have to live on both sides of the border before your opinions would carry any true value.

Keep on rockin Daniel your a good guy and youve done alot to promote this game bro and for that I respect you.
08-04-2014 , 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikilldurrrr1
Eye for an eye suggests identical repercussions for violence.
Well, the essence of him saying this is to let go the need for revenge. There has been SO much atrocity there that people.....enlightened people, need to be the 'bigger man' and really just forget all this nonsense and carry on (elsewhere?) if they are to live any sort of real life. The first thing Mandela did when he got out of jail after TWENTY SEVEN YEARS was to forgive his captors. If not, he said he was still 'jailed' if his mind wasn't free of hate toward them or constant thought of them. MLK also talked a lot about this sort of thing. See a pattern here? NOTHING good came of violence and killing- especially in retaliation, which, again, is what Gandhi was talking about in the first place.

But I digress- as 'littletrix' correctly pointed out, the point here is not to debate this but to assert that DN indeed made a grave error (pun intended).
08-04-2014 , 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneyfornothing
their opinions are exactly the same as yours = meaningless banter
I'm sure he's flattered???


I'm sure he IS a nice guy, but as a public figure and in terrible hubris he way overstepped his bounds and deserves the backlash he's getting. I'm sure he will learn from this.
08-04-2014 , 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yocrackattack
I'm sure he's flattered???


I'm sure he IS a nice guy, but as a public figure and in terrible hubris he way overstepped his bounds and deserves the backlash he's getting. I'm sure he will learn from this.

Ya I'm sure he really cares what a bunch of wanna be bracelet winners really think of him?

Come on Dude he's probably laughing at us right now from his Vegas estate with 3 strippers and a bottle of champagne in his hand.
08-04-2014 , 09:04 PM
Dear Mr. Negreanu:

Since many people are influenced by your opinion, you have a special responsibility to inform yourself broadly.

I respectfully recommend you read a memoir, The General's Son. It is about a man whose niece was killed in a suicide bombing. This drives him not to rage but to better understand the situation. He begins meeting people on the other side for the first time in his life and rediscovers the bravery of his father, a hawkish general in the 1967 war, who decided that the occupation would deform Israel.
08-04-2014 , 11:33 PM
Maybe he should read the book of son of hamas.

About son of hamas founder who went from being a terrorist to helping Israel.
08-05-2014 , 10:44 AM
The guy who says Hamas is as bad as bad as the occupation? Why not.
08-05-2014 , 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneyfornothing
Ya I'm sure he really cares what a bunch of wanna be bracelet winners really think of him?

Come on Dude he's probably laughing at us right now from his Vegas estate with 3 strippers and a bottle of champagne in his hand.
Lol, all I read in this post is "he doesn't care, his life is so pathetic criticism of his support of child killers is barely even in the top ten things he cares about".
08-05-2014 , 03:34 PM
This article goes into detail about the conflict and gives 7 things to consider before choosing sides as DN has done:
http://huff.to/1rSOeWj
Hopefully he can read this and it might make him re-think his polariZed views : /
08-23-2014 , 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
Lol, all I read in this post is "he doesn't care, his life is so pathetic criticism of his support of child killers is barely even in the top ten things he cares about".
Ummmmm its a War dude children are going to get killed and our military has sadly killed thousands of them as well. Your freedom wouldn't be here if they didn't. Israel and Palestine have the right to their freedoms as much as we do and if they are at WAR then children will sadly die. No one wants war but obviously these two countries have mutually decided its necessary.





Daniel has the right to his opinions and all those children sadly died so that he could live in a free country and have that freedom.

My personal feelings are that all war is ridiculous and barbaric in todays world but it is a sad reality of the human condition and it's not going away anytime soon and that's the same thing I think Daniel was saying.

Last edited by moneyfornothing; 08-23-2014 at 09:36 AM.
08-23-2014 , 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
It was originally posted in our News Views and Gossip forum but the powers that be at 2+2 don't really want politics debated there. But I don't like the idea of burying it among hundreds of posts in the other thread on this forum because fewer people will see it and I think his celebrity along with the fact he make some specific arguments that can be precisely debated makes it worthy of its own thread.

************************************************** **********

Only going to add one post to this thread and I haven't read all the comments:

I'm openly willing to share my opinions or views on a wide range of topics. I have opinions just like everyone else, and my association with any company doesn't hold me back from being honest about what I believe.

I understand that some of you who disagree with my position on the Israeli/Palestine conflict have "lost all respect for me," and I'll take full responsibility for that. Anytime you take a position on something, you open yourself up to criticism and that's more than fair. I can take it. Both the good and the bad. I'll never be wish washy, and one thing you will know you'll get from me is honesty and integrity.

As for the conflict, I do not watch Fox News, CNN, or any cable or network news on this matter. The western media isn't shaping my views on this subject. I have some friends who have and do serve in the military, I've done a decent amount of reading on the conflict, and I'm 100% clear on where I stand. No, I'm not FOR the killing of children, and no I am not for genocide. Quite the opposite actually. If Hamas are going to hide their rockets in schools, rockets designed to kill Israeli children and all the rest, then I believe it's Hamas who is putting their own children at risk, and in fact are celebrating these deaths.

People have said, "Look how many Palestinian people have been killed compared to Israelis." Do you not think that Hamas is trying to kill as many as possible? If they could kill more, they would. The fact that Israel is doing a better job protecting it's people only shows that they are both better prepared, and also care more for their citizens. Hamas is killing it's own people. Protestors are being lined up and shot to death by Hamas. Money being sent to them was used not to better the lives of the people, but instead to build tunnels so that Hamas can rape and murder Israelis.

Israel has made peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt and have fully respected those treaties. They have proven again and again to be willing and hopeful for a cease fire. I don't believe Hamas wants peace. I believe they want conflict as it serves their agenda. What is the end goal of Hamas do you think? A two state solution? I don't believe that at all. I believe the goal of groups like Hamas, Al Queda, and Isis are to rid the entire world of all non-Muslims. Not just the Jews, although, that is a good starting point, but all of us. If they have it their way, they will build a new Islamic state on the rubble of cities across the world. That's what I believe. if you choose to see me as a villain for those beliefs, that is your choice.

In closing, I read this quote and it sums up my beliefs perfectly, "If Hamas drops it's weapons, there will be no more war. If Israel drops it's weapons, there will be no more Israel." We are talking about a group of people who not only deny the Holocaust, but will vocally admit that if they have the opportunity, they will create one of their own.

You can hate me if you choose to, but I will ask you if that's logical? We have a difference of opinion on a heated discussion, and I've openly shared my honest views, not from hate, but from what I believe to be true. I respect your right to disagree, and I don't think any less of those who disagree. I certainly don't see any reason to call them idiots or other names.
this is spot on.
08-23-2014 , 09:59 AM
did people see where Hamas executed 18 of their own because they accused them of helping Israel? No trial or anything. How barbaric is that?

Also, who are the ones breaking the cease fires? Hamas is breaking the cease fires, not Israel. How can you say that Hamas wants peace?
08-23-2014 , 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
On a scale of 1-10 how offensive is it to hold the view that the Jewish people should consider moving and setting up their state somewhere a little less controversial? Like give them Montana or something and a few hundred billion to get started and I'm sure they'd have a thriving state up and running in no time just without the rocket attacks.
On a scale of 1-10 how offensive is it to hold the view that the muslims in Israel should consider moving and setting up somewhere in the dozens of muslim countries spread throughout the region?
08-23-2014 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanDoom
Dear Mr. Negreanu:

Since many people are influenced by your opinion, you have a special responsibility to inform yourself broadly.

.
Wow, influenced by DN's opinion? On poker maybe. On world affairs, you must be kidding.
08-23-2014 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
On a scale of 1-10 how offensive is it to hold the view that the muslims in Israel should consider moving and setting up somewhere in the dozens of muslim countries spread throughout the region?
I would, if it were possible of course. I doesn't seem like they have the same options though. Also I keep hearing how the muslims are instigators and the jews are the reasonable ones who just want to be safe and secure. Reason with the reasonable.
08-23-2014 , 05:26 PM
A very noteworthy thing to remember is that during the early parts of Nazi Germany Germany suggested the Jews migrate elsewhere and then European nations and USA refused, because they didn't want them. Also worth noting that during/after the holocaust many predominantly Muslim areas and nations were a popular source of refuge.


The reasons behind this conflict have so much more to do with war culture(on BOTH sides) and repression(and what inevitably results from it) than the ardent Israeli supporters want to believe. It's also ridiculously messed up how much the US gains from all of this, and by the US I mean their military and special interest groups related to their military industrial complex.

Of course these views end up being accused of being Pro Hamas, pro TERRORISM, and Anti-Semitic, but whatever.

      
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