Sure if you hold it to the same implied massive double standard that seems to exist in every venue in this country - chiefsplanet is a-ok calling people f*ggot on their forum (which happens so often there's an automatic transform that changes it to "pillowbitergot"), but the liberals on this forum need to be censured for saying "lol".

Trump can tweet like a deranged toddler throwing a tantrum - but fly being a meanie - that's over the line.

Steve King can ask what's wrong with white supremacy but the MSM spends 10x more time on something AOC said.

Etc.

"I consider myself center-left and agree with most on in this forum, on most things, most of the time. But anyone with anything other than a far left viewpoint, on every topic, is in general subject to derision and personal attacks."

Meh, to a degree. I consider myself about the same, and overall I've been treated pretty well - although I have eight posters on ignore, for various reasons.

In terms of personal attacks - Einbert took a run at me, which I basically took as a compliment. In other words, I consider the source - for most of the posters, it's neither here nor there - either I don't think too much of their arguments, or it's some drive by with 9 posts or something, so why would I care. OTOH, if, say Simpliticus told me I was a brain dead idiot, I'd be concerned - he's a good poster, and I respect his opinions on things.

Overall, I've learned some stuff hanging around here. I'd be sorry to see it go.

MM MD

Go into SE and start trashing the conventional wisdom and see what happens. Tell them you think coaches go for it too much on 4th down, baseball analytics are overrated, or players skills erode with bad coaching - even at the pro level.

Every subforum has their little cliques. Usually their more or less right compared to the general public. But they take it too far sometimes and they do tend to gang up on dissenters. It's human nature.

Your writing indicates that you think the world is divided entirely into "left-wing" and "right-wing". Posters are left-wing or right-wing, forums are left-wing or right-wing, and so on. You need this crude heuristic for understanding the world because you would never be able to make sense of the world as it is--infinitely complex and dynamic. That in and of itself makes it very difficult to discuss things with posters here, as the discussion is constantly forced down by their binary level of understanding of all issues.

The existence of other forums that are worse than this one doesn't have anything to say about the quality of this forum. Your thinking it does is a type of logical fallacy (I believe it's colloquially referred to as "whataboutism").

You could probably infer from what I've written why I wouldn't take you up on your proposal--this is a terrible place to discuss politics. Honest debate requires mutual respect and an honest interest in learning, refining one's understanding of the world, etc. The regulars here display none of these traits. They drip with spite for those who disagree, or even question, their pat conclusions on issues. There is no desire to learn, to discover why the world is the way it is, or how it might realistically be made better.

The smartest and most accomplished folks in the world in the spheres of economics, political science, public policy, and so on, know that their fields are extremely complex and there are so many more questions than answers. Yet the regulars here believe they've got it all figured out on all issues, and they've herded up to drive away anyone who doesn't tow their dogma. What possibly could be the point of discussing anything with these people? I discuss ideas with intelligent, humble people who respect me and vice versa, not with Politics posters.

"Trump can tweet like a deranged toddler throwing a tantrum - but fly being a meanie - that's over the line.

Not to be obvious, but Trump's not posting here, AFAIK. He's not (supposed) to be held to the posting standards - he's just being quoted on outside nonsense he pukes out.

MM MD

Ironic given the sheer number of politics posters who are lawyers, doctors, and other professionals, as compared to, say, OOT.

I absolutely want you to take me up on my proposal. You'll even get kid-glove treatment obviously because of all this. Let's get the ball rolling.

Meanwhile, let's see what sort of respect and honest interest this guy has.

Nope, no spite here.

Why would I want or need kid-glove treatment? I thought this forum was an even-handed place where people of all views can discuss things with respect. In any case, no. I don't have anything to be gained from this forum in its present state. I have a family and a business where my time is spent much more fruitfully, and in my business I'm compensated for having an accurate understanding of the world, not arguing fruitlessly with the mean-spirited and mentally inflexible. There used to be posters here who would actually debate vastly different political systems and beliefs in good faith, and it was a great environment for testing and shaping one's logical premises. That is a distant memory.

This is another good example of terrible posting and moderation all at the same time, so thanks for providing this directly in this thread. Rather than take my critique to heart, this biased moderator goes through my posting history to find where I've posted in this forum, to see if he can "get" me, and he finds a post I made in astonishment after witnessing multiple far-left regulars discuss how and where they would participate favorably in an impending hot civil war that would ravage the US. This poster/moderator is so un-objective that he thinks he's succeeded in "getting" me, and is now sharing the evidence with his herd. Perhaps it's this bias that causes him to ban good posters for minutiae, and allow death wishes and wishes of violence to go unmoderated when they originate from those of his political tastes. In any case, it's fairly small wonder why this place has been such a terrible waste for so many years.

Mentally inert? Good one mate. Who banned you and why? I’m sure it wasn’t deserved at all. Also, since you don’t have any desire to discuss anything here why exactly do you want the forum shut down?

Aaaaaaand another critic accidentally reveals that they also care little for the supposed "respect" this forum so desperately needs!

The point is that it is absurd to hold internet posters to a higher standard than the President of the United States of America that you won't repudiate, will soft-defend and even made a thread about to troll the people who have a problem with his clearly unacceptable behavior......

Lol where have all the right wing posters gone? Seriously? I vote conservative up here in Canada and have always considered myself such, but there’s no way I could even conceive of voicing support for the ****show that are conservative values held by the GOP. Almost everything he does is indefensible from any standard beyond ‘my feelings tell me this is a good thing to do’ - who but the most obtuse or true-believing will spend time here arguing the other side?

Ps: does deleting the trump bot count as making the forum more civil?

Jesus Christ if I have to start editing the trump bot’s posts to make the forum more civil i give up.

I may be misunderstanding your post, and if so, I apologize. Are you saying that I made a thread trolling people? Or what?

MM MD

I consider the trumpbot to be the crowning achievement of my career in software engineering

edit:

I think he's referring to Mason.

Mason, if you decide to close politics please perma ban me while your at it.

all good then. It can be hard to follow the various threads/thoughts flying around. At least for me.

MM MD

This is just not accurate - there are several lawyers, a physicist (although I think she just went MIA), a doctor or two, and a smorgasbord of other higher educated people in OOT. Offhand I can't really think of too many posters that don't have some kind of education.

Mason, please don't delete this forum. I can speak for myself and probably a few others that I would definitely be negatively impacted by it. Other posters are better written than I am on the topic and I am speaking from emotion so I will not try to elaborate how I feel, other than to say I do think there is an increased amount of hostility on this forum, and I blame on the hostile political climate and absurdity of our times. As others have said if this is really the problem I think it would be quite simple to tone it down.

But if this is about some people's feelings being hurt about holding certain political and social views, that frankly, are kind of absurd (and to a large degree, hateful), well, I don't think we need a safe space for them. We already tried that with unchained and it didn't work.

This post echos my sentiments almost exactly. I certainly don't want the politics forum shut down, but I don't want to see drastic changes to what is the absolute best (and generally most engaging to all points of view) political forum around. I will see my way out and see everyone somewhere else down the line if it happens.

Don't get me wrong here. We all know it is the owner's prerogative to limit speech of any kind on their private forum. I don't see it as childish, petty, or otherwise. It is what it is - their call for any reason they would like. The pretext given for possibly shutting it down doesn't hold water with me, but that's just one man's opinion. And an opinion that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

I've been here for a while now. The posters here are genuine, intelligent, and have made my life significantly better. We don't always agree on everything, but we all independently agree on how bad things are in our country right now. If we do close up shop, I want to wish everyone well (yes, that includes Mason and David) and thank everyone for the knowledge and entertainment shared. I'm better because of it.

I could possibly be the most 'left' poster on the board not named Einbert, although I most certinly don't share his communist views. That being said, I have genuinely enjoyed your posting and nearly always find myself agreeing with you and learning from you. The healthcare/medical knowledge you brought to the board was/is invaluable. I hope I'm not one of the 8 you have on ignore.

Nah, you're good. (I think half my list doesn't post anymore, and I've taken a couple of people off.)

Interestingly (to me, anyway) as I've aged I've moved to the left politically. I think it may have something to do with my line of work - I'm much more aware now how many people are just getting by/need help - and I'm fully aware that my happy position in life isn't necessarily 100% due to my efforts. I wasn't born on third base, but at least between first and second......

MM MD

Everyone ITT trying to act like they're DVaut1 and always stay above the fray.

I promise I've never reported any posts and I hope none of you think I have any ill-will toward anyone here. Whenever I post, I do so willingly into what I already know to be a hostile environment. You can be *******s, but I think that's mostly the anonymity speaking.

This made me laugh. A quiet moment of reflection amidst the chaos of the thread.

"We're not as bad as Chief's Planet" was another good one. That's true, of course, but mostly because conservative types are quickly chased away. There's no doubt that some selective moderation took care of a few of them, but for the rest, I'm sure it just boiled down to them sick of being called names every time they spoke up. Still, it's not overly difficult to find personal attacks on here if you know where to look.

It wasn't always like this. I'm not really sure when the transition to full blown echo-chamber was completed.

I think it was somewhere in my mid to late 30's when I fully realized my happy position in life was chock full of luck. I'm certain we both put in the time to better ourselves through education, training, etc. It's realizing how lucky we are to be able to do that - when many others just aren't - that turns on the light bulb.