Should Gambling Be Legal? - Page 10 - Politics and Economics

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Should Gambling Be Legal?

View Poll Results: Should Gambling Be Legal in the United States?

Gambling is not a net negative on society and should be legal.

20 19.80%

Gambling is a net negative on society but should still be legal.

72 71.29%

Gambling is not a net negative on society but should be illegal.

1 0.99%

Gambling is a net negative and should be illegal.

7 6.93%

Demod jman220

13 12.87%

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01-05-2019 , 03:30 PM

#226

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,490

What killed* the numbers racket? In 1964 there were an estimated 100,000 numbers workers in NYC.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/23/n...in-harlem.html

It wasn't killed by a crackdown. The legal numbers racket took its place in 1967 with the state lottery.

*article is about how it's not completely dead, but it's nothing like it was

01-05-2019 , 07:20 PM

#227

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,846

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

Bars closing during the middle of the day is hardly Prohibition. It's proving difficult/impossible to get data on this for non-USA-UK, but I suggest there are factors at play other than the alcohol laws and their severity.

In the US for example, I'd suggest that the Prohibition movement as a social movement was more effective than the law. Times change. Acceptable behavior changes. The law often follows, instead of leading.

Fair enough and I've long made the point that the law often follows and can even be a drag on progress. But the law does make a huge difference as well.

Two points seem clear:

1) As always when it's consensual, the political debate should be about what is good regulation and not about banning.

2) another reason to be against war is that it interferes with drinking.

01-05-2019 , 08:09 PM

#228

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,490

They break out the hard drugs for war.

01-07-2019 , 05:50 AM

#229

bacalaopeace

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by jman220

Also, it’s worth noting that one of the reasons that such a huge percentage of lottery mega jackpot winners go broke is that such a huge percentage of them are problem gamers to begin with and they often gamble it all away.

Is there a source for these claims? Specifically: a. that a huge percentage of lottery mega jackpot winners go broke and b. that a huge percentage of those are problem gamers?

01-07-2019 , 06:10 AM

#230

bacalaopeace

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinopoker

You're not wrong but it's hard to say whether casinos deliberately do the preying, or whether it's just the nature of gambling itself. I mean you see the same type of degenerate mopes in horse tracks all across the world, and you'd never say the tracks themselves deliberately cultivate their addictions. Same goes for your average card room or pool hall. Degens gonna degen.

I have a family member who is a serious alcoholic (but amazingly functional and employed) of the drink from the early am on sort but who tries to hide it. She gets discounts at hotels because they know she's going to make profitable nightly raids on the minibar. She stays at one near me and they literally have her on a special list for upgrades. Facilitation is certainly part of the game.

Most of the revenue comes from a small subset of the gambling/drinking/etc population. The vendor needs all the small spending recreational players/drinkers to find the addictive players/drinkers and to make them comfortable and to give them easier access.

01-07-2019 , 06:14 AM

#231

bacalaopeace

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrianople

Because there are a minority of people that exist, that cannot handle the existence of gambling in a free and democratic society, it is my opinion that those individuals should not be prioritized above the vast majority that CAN control themselves in said society.

Precisely prioritizing the rest is what suggests that these activities should be legal but regulated. The question is what line minimizes overall social costs. Full criminalizaton maximizes negative externalities, and makes remediation of the problem users almost impossible. The social costs tend to be much higher.

Look at the US and drugs compared to Europe and drugs. Part of the reason the US has so much more violence is that the penalties for selling drugs are so much more severe. And treatment of users is similarly more difficult, not less difficult, because use is criminalized.

01-07-2019 , 06:15 AM

#232

bacalaopeace

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

Imo something worth considering in this calculation:

"The common good" is certainly important, but it's not an absolute and complete way to make a decision. We don't murder old people because we add up all the values and come up with it being -EV. Mostly we don't do it because they have as much right to live as we do and we don't gain some right to murder them because some supposedly legitimate form of government or vote comes down on the side that killing them is +EV.

Similar considerations come into play in decisions that aren't about murdering a bunch of people.

Not sure about this. We don't murder old people because we hope to get old and don't want to be murdered when we do.

We don't murder a bunch of people because if we did we'd probably get killed too.

Most morality of the "right" sort is based on institutionalizing reciprocity for those too stupid to perceive it themselves.

01-07-2019 , 10:40 AM

#233

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,490

Most morality of the right sort is based on millions of years of evolution.

https://www.amazon.com/Good-Natured-.../dp/0674356616

In a way that's based on reciprocity itself, but not in a way that is driven by society or contemporary institutions.

Edit: also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutu...r_of_Evolution

01-07-2019 , 10:23 PM

#234

fxwacgesvrhdtf

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacalaopeace

Is there a source for these claims? Specifically: a. that a huge percentage of lottery mega jackpot winners go broke and b. that a huge percentage of those are problem gamers?

https://www.cleveland.com/business/i...lottery_w.html

http://fortune.com/2016/01/15/powerb...ttery-winners/

https://wolfstreet.com/2018/04/17/ne...re-bankruptcy/

https://brandongaille.com/22-lottery...pt-statistics/

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