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Old 01-05-2018, 09:11 PM   #1
Michael Davis
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The Shadow Presidency of Hillary R. Clinton

Investigating the Clinton Foundation is likely to uncover actual dirt, the voter fraud thing is 100% hoax.
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:18 PM   #2
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Investigating the Clinton Foundation is likely to uncover actual dirt
they did already and stopped because of lack of evidence. what changed?
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:27 PM   #3
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

Why would dirt be uncovered at the Clinton Foundation? It's got a higher rating than charities like the American Heart Association and American Cancer Society.

Do you think they are smuggling Uranium through their charity or something?
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:33 PM   #4
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Why would dirt be uncovered at the Clinton Foundation? It's got a higher rating than charities like the American Heart Association and American Cancer Society.

Do you think they are smuggling Uranium through their charity or something?
It's pretty likely people donate to clinton foundation and clinton acted in their best interest. Thats enough to appear like a controversy regardless of whether there is any shred of connection between those two things.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:32 PM   #5
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Investigating the Clinton Foundation is likely to uncover actual dirt, the voter fraud thing is 100% hoax.
Lol
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:01 PM   #6
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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It's pretty likely people donate to clinton foundation and clinton acted in their best interest. Thats enough to appear like a controversy regardless of whether there is any shred of connection between those two things.
I'm actually surprised there was an investigation into the Clinton Foundation that overturned nothing, I find it highly implausible that an organization that does the kinds of things the foundation does is not engaged in criminal activity to some degree.

I will admit to not being incredibly knowledgeable here about the foundation specifically, but I know the Clintons really messed around in Haiti and gave out a bunch of contracts that benefited their buddies' multinational corporations. Whether this happened during the Clinton administration or with the Clinton foundation I'm not sure.

I think it's easy to forget that the Clintons are scum and in a better world would be in jail given the bold criminality of Trump & cro. Just because the conservatives' attacks on the Clintons are ludicrous and not based in reality does not mean there are not legitimate attacks on the Clintons.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:05 PM   #7
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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an organization that does the kinds of things the foundation does

I will admit to not being incredibly knowledgeable here about the foundation specifically
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:37 PM   #8
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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I will admit to not being incredibly knowledgeable here about the foundation specifically, but I know the Clintons really messed around in Haiti and gave out a bunch of contracts that benefited their buddies' multinational corporations.
You know that giving your buddies contracts isn't a crime, right?
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:37 PM   #9
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Eh, it KIND of does, since if there were legitimate attacks on the Clintons, the conservative nutjobs would have used them instead/in addition to the ludicrous ones.

I'm not saying the Clintons are above reproach, but I mean, come on.
Mr. Davis here is falling for the exact reason the rwnjs have founded their own "news" bubble: if they keep screaming loud enough and frequently enough that <random dem> is corrupt, well, pretty soon people will have heard enough garbage to believe that some of it must be true. I mean, why else would there be so much in the news about clinton corruption?
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:38 PM   #10
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Loki, I am 100% certain I know more about this than you do because the mere word "Clinton" turns on your sycophantic anti-investigation, automated response machine. I'm pretty sure everyone just assumed I was talking about Uranium One or some dumb crap.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:42 PM   #11
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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You know that giving your buddies contracts isn't a crime, right?
Great. I'll let Whitefish and Ryan Zinke know. Of course you may be right that no crime was committed, but if you think there are no misappropriation of nonprofit funds issues that potentially exist in the Clinton Foundation good for you.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:44 PM   #12
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Mr. Davis here is falling for the exact reason the rwnjs have founded their own "news" bubble: if they keep screaming loud enough and frequently enough that <random dem> is corrupt, well, pretty soon people will have heard enough garbage to believe that some of it must be true. I mean, why else would there be so much in the news about clinton corruption?
Cool story. I lived in Haiti for four months.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:45 PM   #13
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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I know the Clintons really messed around in Haiti and gave out a bunch of contracts that benefited their buddies' multinational corporations.
Alright man, go for it. Dazzle us with a glowing, reputable citation so we can all talk about it.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:00 AM   #14
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Alright man, go for it. Dazzle us with a glowing, reputable citation so we can all talk about it.
Somewhat ironic of you to ask for a cite.

I'm pretty sure Politico is right up your alley right, that's where you get your news from?

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...n-email-213110

No specific mention of corruption, just an internal memo from Chelsea Clinton (I'm sure if you crane your neck to the left you'll see her statue) about how crummy of a job they did.

No specifics here (it's not really my job to prove there is fire, just that there is enough smoke), but here's the right-wing source wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrup...iti_Fund_funds

General piece about Clinton in Haiti, mostly a desperate attempt at edifying you. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/05/h...uake-martelly/

And another about the Foundation generally: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/08/h...ion-president/

None of these sources lay out the case explicitly for corruption or crimes. My belief that crimes are committed is because I do not think organizations like this are ever not criminal and is based on my general observations of the Clintons, who are quite obviously sociopathic.

I could be wrong about this stuff. But being jumped on as if I'm coming from some right-wing position reflects more on you guys than it does me. There's no hope for true believer Loki, but I'm genuinely disappointed in Matty Lice.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:07 AM   #15
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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I lived in Haiti for four months.
Cool story, bro.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:14 AM   #16
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

I'm totally not a crazy anti Clinton zealot like those other folks... But have you heard about the Clinton foundation? I've confirmed it is a criminal organization by thinking about it and confirming that it has to be because it can't not be.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:14 AM   #17
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

Trump Foundation was mostly giving money to Donald Trump directly and we've already stopped giving a ****/forgotten about it.

Haiti is a rough case just in terms of them vs everybody else as it seems like pretty much every charity down there were total scams. Red Cross had a notable one that hit the press for a day or two before everybody stopped giving a **** like we always do.

fwiw, I don't see the Clintons as pure sociopaths. Sociopaths generally wouldn't bother giving a dime from the foundation to help anyone. Sure, Hillary is probably a narcissist and Bill has the same views on women as Trump does but I'm not quite buying this one. Corrupt? Probably.

It's tougher to justify simply because there's far worse getting away with it that we're fully aware and most foundations are run like that in terms of high salaries going to pals and all that crap and nobody seems to give a ****. The biggest problem simply, it seems obviously political like everything else.

Last edited by wheatrich; 01-06-2018 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:49 AM   #18
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by Michael Davis View Post
Somewhat ironic of you to ask for a cite.

I'm pretty sure Politico is right up your alley right, that's where you get your news from?

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...n-email-213110

No specific mention of corruption, just an internal memo from Chelsea Clinton (I'm sure if you crane your neck to the left you'll see her statue) about how crummy of a job they did.
I actually came across that article, among the dozens of other Hillary/Haiti conspiracy garbage dumps being refuted.

That goalpost sure got moved quickly from "THEY DID THE ILLEGAL STUFF" to "Uh, Chelsea said they could have done a better job".

Good effort man.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:59 AM   #19
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by Michael Davis View Post
Investigating the Clinton Foundation is likely to uncover actual dirt, the voter fraud thing is 100% hoax.
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Originally Posted by Loki View Post
I actually came across that article, among the dozens of other Hillary/Haiti conspiracy garbage dumps being refuted.

That goalpost sure got moved quickly from "THEY DID THE ILLEGAL STUFF" to "Uh, Chelsea said they could have done a better job".

Good effort man.
You too. Way to read the one article I posted that's within your wheelhouse. You did an excellent job of reading over the Jacobin articles which detail the experiences of Haitians. Also note that I did not post any of the garbage dumps which, yes, are plentiful. Again, the existence of crap and impure motives and right-wing propaganda does not exonerate the Clinton Foundation!

I said "likely." And it's pretty obvious that my position is that the Clintons are scum and that organizations such as the Clinton Foundation are almost always involved in criminal behavior. I might be wrong about this, but I was never required to provide absolute proof of corruption.

I had no idea there were so many defenders of the Clinton Foundation here. Do you guys generally trust giant charitable organizations that participate in restructuring countries after disasters? Do you not think it's likely that any similar charitable organization is engaged in criminal activity? Like if you had to bet, is the Clinton Foundation guilty of criminal activity, you would bet no? (For Loki: "Likely" means greater than 50%.)
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:12 AM   #20
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

To Bill's credit he admits to ****ing up Haiti.
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:35 AM   #21
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Originally Posted by Michael Davis View Post
Somewhat ironic of you to ask for a cite.



I'm pretty sure Politico is right up your alley right, that's where you get your news from?



https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...n-email-213110



No specific mention of corruption, just an internal memo from Chelsea Clinton (I'm sure if you crane your neck to the left you'll see her statue) about how crummy of a job they did.



No specifics here (it's not really my job to prove there is fire, just that there is enough smoke), but here's the right-wing source wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrup...iti_Fund_funds



General piece about Clinton in Haiti, mostly a desperate attempt at edifying you. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/05/h...uake-martelly/



And another about the Foundation generally: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/08/h...ion-president/



None of these sources lay out the case explicitly for corruption or crimes. My belief that crimes are committed is because I do not think organizations like this are ever not criminal and is based on my general observations of the Clintons, who are quite obviously sociopathic.



I could be wrong about this stuff. But being jumped on as if I'm coming from some right-wing position reflects more on you guys than it does me. There's no hope for true believer Loki, but I'm genuinely disappointed in Matty Lice.


So you post 5 articles and then say

None say anything about corruption.

In your cite for - there’s corruption


Got it.
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:54 AM   #22
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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So you post 5 articles and then say

None say anything about corruption.

In your cite for - there’s corruption


Got it.
It's not my fault you guys are either sycophants or incredibly bad at recognizing the preconditions for corruption.

From the second Jacobin article above:

Quote:
In the rush to tarnish the Clintons by any means necessary, the Right typically substitutes spin for substance — such as the erroneous accusation that the foundation spends only about 6 percent of its revenue on projects in the field.

But beyond the Republican bluster, there is a substantial critique of the Clinton Foundation: at its core, it fuses fundraising, influence-peddling, Washington networking, “humanitarian” causes, and an endless grasp for power and money.

Though taking care to adhere to the letter of the law, the foundation comes close to the line in many cases — for example, soliciting donations by offering face time with the Clintons in ways that seem suspiciously like a political campaign for elected office, but not exactly like that, because that would be a violation of the law.
Quote:
“Nearly half of the major donors who are backing Ready for Hillary, a group promoting her 2016 presidential bid, as well as nearly half of the bundlers from her 2008 campaign, have given at least $10,000 to the foundation, either on their own or through foundations or companies they run,”the Post reports.

The list of Clinton Foundation donors includes blue-chip corporations such as Coca Cola and Verizon, Wall Street players like Goldman Sachs, and American military contractors.
Quote:
Indeed, the iconic accomplishments of the Clinton Foundation in Haiti today are an industrial park built to help foreign-owned clothing manufacturers exploit low-wage Haitian labor; trailers to house schools for Haiti’s next generation of workers; and a luxury hotel for wealthy corporate executives who need a place to rest their weary heads as they seek out new business opportunities.

In 2012, Bill and Hillary Clinton personally attended the opening ceremony of the Caracol Industrial Park, which was supposed to create some 60,000 jobs for Haitians longing for decent employment. (Among the celebrities who attended the opening were Sean Penn and Ben Stiller.) But a year after its opening, the park had only generated 1,500 jobs. “Hundreds of smallholder farmers were coaxed into giving up more than 600 acres of land for the complex, yet nearly 95 percent of that land remains unused,” Al Jazeera reported in September 2013.

Disgracefully, the Clinton Foundation also contracted with Clayton Homes — the same firm sued by the US government for supplying trailers reeking of formaldehyde fumes to Hurricane Katrina refugees — to provide trailers to serve as schools for the children of the town of Léogâne.
Does this stuff warrant an investigation of the organization or not? My original post was a one off that said there was dirt on the Clinton admin as compared to the utterly fraudulent voter fraud committee. You guys don't think any of this qualifies as dirt?

I'm reading the Wolff book and I'll try to just enjoy you guys posting about that instead of reflexively dropping groupthink.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:03 AM   #23
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

Oh **** yeah, the Clinton foundation song and dance. I always forget the second verse somehow? You know, the part where the Clintons took a bunch of money from the foundation for their personal use. How much did Bill and Hillary make from that scam anyway?
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:17 AM   #24
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Oh **** yeah, the Clinton foundation song and dance. I always forget the second verse somehow? You know, the part where the Clintons took a bunch of money from the foundation for their personal use. How much did Bill and Hillary make from that scam anyway?
Sigh. I don't think the Clintons took any money personally out of the foundation itself. No corruption then!
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:02 AM   #25
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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Whitefish? Yeah, how dare Hillary spend taxpayer money like th- oh wait

Great analogy dude, nailed it
Sigh, I have much love for you too. Oh well.

The dude seriously said offering contracts to people you like is not corruption. Which is a ridiculous statement.

I responded with a very clear example of corruption. It's such an obvious form of corruption that it beggars belief that someone would defend this as non-corruption in other contexts (like when their heroes perhaps engage in the behavior.)

I'll try one more time: By making a reference to corruption in the Trump administration, I am pointing out the hypocrisy of those making ridiculous arguments against me. If I posted about Whitefish and Zinke, nobody here would be saying, lol dude that's not corruption that's just contracts.

Seriously, I'm reading this trump book and in the first few pages it talks about how Manafort didn't take a salary which made people wonder what he was getting out of it. How exactly is this not line of thought not applied to the Clinton Foundation?
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