If you want an idea of how Trump treats someone he actually detests, unlike Putin, just look at how he acts toward Obama.

it probably shouldn't but for some reason that oval office photo with Maria Butina hit me as just nuts.
Like, we are charging someone with being a Russian agent, and there's a pic of her in the oval office. This is just amazing. With a lot of this stuff, there's always some crazy round about justification and deniability, but there it is. Russian agent, oval office.

If we ever have a civil war, it won't be the privileged white kids of Antifa doing the fighting and dying.

DVaut spitting fire. Those posts are so enjoyable to read it almost makes the **** show worth it.

I mean I hope Trump gets sent to Guantanamo but by gawd if it happens, it's really like the second worst outcome relative to Trump remaining President. There's going to be so much bipartisan celebration of cops, FBI and intelligence agencies, we won't be that far away from the police state Trump wants anyway.

Really the best and only hopeful outcome is to defeat the Republicans electorally because I'm really not sure a world in which Bob Mueller and the C I ****ing A take down Trump is really any better. Can you imagine how many bipartisan parades we're going to hold for the CIA and all seventeen intelligence agencies should it ever go down? Week 1 of the NFL season of whatever year law enforcement finally catch up to Trump is going to be the CIA, DIA, NSA, ONSI, and whatever other unaccountable surveillance cop unit invited to midfield to wave a giant American flag around while Eric Garland and Bill Kristol high-five and say they saved the Republic. That country is only slightly, only very slightly less trash than Trump's America and it's almost debatable.

The ultimate outcome of a Trump presidency has always been more nefarious than most anyone gave credit for from the beginning and I've been thinking about this for a long time. I'm not that smart and don't know how it all plays out. I'm just pretty sure it will take a civil war and will be violent. I'm not sure he finds any generals or enough subordinates to those generals to go along with it. So far, while congress fails the nation, our major institutions seem to be holding up (our courts, CIA, and FBI). I think the military holds up too unless the entire succession from Pence on down goes along with a coupe.

Along with a blue wave there needs to be be massive protests and demonstrations (ala London) on a regular basis. I've always said that no matter what, he will not relinquish power peacefully (even if he legit loses in 2020). He will need to get ousted and it will become violent. Antifa might become important. Most urban racist trash who still support Trump are too old too fight. Not sure how it plays out over flyover America. Will they have to travel? Or can they starve out cities before they lose their farms and all commerce? Will big oil and business still be pro Trump and shut down urbanites? I suppose police, military, and national guard will have to protect the WH or congress from angry mobs. It will be violent. But I think with enough protesters the people eventually win. At least I hope so.

Not sure what antifa is like in the US. My only experience is the UK. From what i know there, thats an unfair characterisation. they are often fairly serious hard left socialists, with a big background in the labor movement. Unionists, children of unionists, etc.

There's certainly some middle class wannabes in there, but you got to remember, the only defining feature of antifa is a proven willingness to man the barricades and fight nazis.

def a non-zero probability that's shopped.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...04976441221120

The insane thing is that even as they do this constant cop-worshipping **** where they get furious at the slander to the FBI and CIA....

Somewhat oddly all the moderate Republicans still aren't flipping to them as the party of law and order?

How could it be?!?! Trump insulted Peter Strzok?!?!

It's an insane repeat of the John Kerry reporting for duty/Gold Star family **** that the Dems just LOVE to do to show that they really do love the troops, this constant gormless acceptance of the most obviously bad faith GOP attacks.

Liberals get the bullet too, man, that's the sad truth.

We’re like 1-2 generations away from the days when the FBI would wiretap MLK and John Lennon. Absurd that they’ve become the left’s knight in shining armor.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...fdcc594c5d?fnm

It's incredibly important to remember the recent past. I know, it's hard, but in 2014, in the before-Trump when the GOP was Good and Principled, the defining issue of the midterm elections was elected Republicans going on Fox News to say Obama's CDC was lying about Ebola and the African immigrant disease was coming to take all our American bodily fluids.

I have NEVER seen the media remotely pushback on any of this MS-13 **** with the actual reality that MS-13 is just a street gang, and not even an unusually large one.

Are we sure that Oval Office picture is both:
A) not photoshopped
B) actually Maria Butina

well turns out that oval office photo may not be the russian.

The photo is visible here along with the original article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/u...s-blocked.html

The bold are privileged white people who don't fight and die in civil wars. The people who die in civil wars are the oppressed people, either doing the bidding of their oppressors or fighting back against them.

I mean I don't know who Mike Tracey is and have only read his tweets that Greenwald retweeted. Those tweets I generally agree with. But I'm not holding Tracey up as any sort of...anything? I don't know who he is. I've never mentioned him. Greenwald I've read for more than a decade, and yes, his views on this stuff are more or less my own.

But in any case, some of the folks ITT are criticizing Trump's rhetoric and policy. You'll notice that I'm not criticizing their posts. I'm responding to people who are convinced that the only explanation for Trump's behavior is KOMPROMAT and PUTIN and literal blackmail. The folks I quoted were a small subset of that -- just from a portion of yesterday. When, as Dvault points out, a perfectly reasonable alternative theory is that Trump likes Putin (just like he likes Durerte, Sisi, Netanyahu, Mussolini, etc, etc, etc) because he's a despicable racist and authoritarian and likes like-minded people. He has the courage of his convictions! And, unlike the blackmail conspiracy theory, there's lots of actual evidence to back this up. Look at all the racist stuff he's said over the years. Look at the racist and authoritarian rhetoric he's used in his actual campaign for President. Look at how his personal support for Putin -- not for his interests, but a genuine admiration for the man -- is mirrored by similar support and warm fuzzy feelings for other authoritarians and autocrats. And he wasn't elected because Russia meddled in the election. He was elected because 62 million Americans shared his views, either grudgingly or enthusiastically.

Do you think the NYTimes ran this photoshopped pic over a year ago as part of some long con?

can you give us a link or something???

Butina is like the third most important Russian agent in that photo, not including Trump.

Non-zero chance there are more than one Kremlin spy in that photo.

https://twitter.com/CahnEmily/status...07195337134080

What’s funny is how many pictures of red sparrow with various republicans at various republican events there are. Twitter is filled with them today. It is crazy how completely integrated she was with the entire machinery of the party and it’s big backers.

obv me and the others questioning didn't have any info on the provenance. I did actually search for any photos of the meeting including the Russian ministry site and couldn't find it. The closest was just the right side visible with the head hidden from an Oz news site.

But wd you got an opportunity to seem superior, I hope you got a boost.

All those gingers look the same.