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Old 06-29-2018, 09:38 AM   #126
TomCollins
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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Originally Posted by zikzak View Post
Tom you seriously haven't outgrown libertarianism yet? Aren't you pushing 40?

I outgrew it long ago. Full AC for over a decade or more.


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hahaha women are gonna die in back alleys, great time for a silly meme video.

LOL @ women actually dying from this. LOL @ Roe v Wade even being overturned. I'm willing to take a bet that it hasn't been overturned in any meaningful way in the next 5 years.



Abortion is one issue that I am about as neutral as it comes though. Both sides have absolute **** arguments and some decent ones sprinkled in. Knowing when life starts having rights is a very tough call, so it's very tricky to say when, which is why I don't like the government trying to make that call except when it's completely obvious. It's clearly a wedge issue used to get people riled up so that the politicians can get away with everything else they do (well, Trump's pretty terrible, BUT AT LEAST HE'LL PUT A PRO LIFE JUDGE UP!).


The "women will die" is a silly argument - if abortion is truly an abomination, then why would anyone care that someone trying to murder dies? If a guy tries to kill someone in the street and he pulls out a gun and shoots him, I don't feel sorry for it. If abortion is just a routine procedure on a clump of cells without rights, then the fact that they die is tragic, but the fact they are denied this right is even more tragic. So it's a simple appeal to emotion based on little facts (the amount of deaths would be incredibly low in such a situation). It's why the Remy video is so perfect, just goes right to the heart of the emotional arguing twits who insist that any time someone dies, its a national tragedy and we need new laws to fix it.


But like I said, I have more faith in the court to not be morons and not overturn it. It's generally a tough standard to overturn a previous decision, whether they personally want to or not. Then again, I'm not sure I do agree with the decision from a legal perspective - it did seem to be an invented right out of nowhere, even if I agree with the results. (I think the Trump immigration ban decision was likely correct, but a horrible outcome).
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:44 AM   #127
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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Man, Clarence Thomas is only 70.
I donít get the impression he actually likes being in the court.
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:48 AM   #128
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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I donít get the impression he actually likes being in the court.
Even if you hate the work, the job wields so much power it has got to be hard to just walk away from.
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:54 AM   #129
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

Iíd forgotten how horrible and broken Libertarians are.
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:57 AM   #130
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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Even if you hate the work, the job wields so much power it has got to be hard to just walk away from.
True. But he definitely seems partisan enough to want to leave his successor to chance.
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:26 AM   #131
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

There is literally a Russian agent as president of the United States, a Supreme Court ruling legalizing voter purges, neo Nazi rallies with no hoods and children concentration camps and STILL people are going the ‘im willing to bet x won’t happen’

Good stuff
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:38 AM   #132
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

wow a TC sighting, I assumed the worst after An Ohio State U failed to playoff last year
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:40 AM   #133
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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I donít get the impression he actually likes being in the court.
I can't imagine having it made any better than he has it made. Make up mind, then sit, pretend to listen, pretend to consider, have clerks draft predetermined opinion, go home. Aside from 8 hours a day on the couch playing Fortnite I cannot imagine a better existence.
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:45 AM   #134
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

that remy video is one of the dumbest things Ive ever seen. imagine thinking that is somehow clever or applicable.

govt is rounding up ppl in camps in the summer heat of texas. lol at worrying about those ppl dying.

govt is gutting social programs and health care and food stamps. lol silly liberal caring about those ppl dying.
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:51 AM   #135
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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wow a TC sighting, I assumed the worst after An Ohio State U failed to playoff last year

Na, I was arguing against them making the playoffs. You don't lose to Iowa that badly and get rewarded. Would have just been an asskicking. Beating USC was fun. I wouldn't have cried if they made it.


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that remy video is one of the dumbest things Ive ever seen. imagine thinking that is somehow clever or applicable.

govt is rounding up ppl in camps in the summer heat of texas. lol at worrying about those ppl dying.

govt is gutting social programs and health care and food stamps. lol silly liberal caring about those ppl dying.



I think you just proved my point. They aren't dying. "gutting social programs", lol, more scare tactics, I could only wish that they were being gutted. They seem to only keep expanding, just not as fast as some would like.


More people will die of bee stings than backalley abortions (at least compared to what is there today, I'd imagine there are occasional deaths from abortions in hospitals in rare circumstances).
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:55 AM   #136
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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I think you just proved my point. They aren't dying. "gutting social programs", lol, more scare tactics, I could only wish that they were being gutted. They seem to only keep expanding, just not as fast as some would like.


More people will die of bee stings than backalley abortions (at least compared to what is there today, I'd imagine there are occasional deaths from abortions in hospitals in rare circumstances).
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Iíd forgotten how horrible and broken Libertarians are.
.
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Old 06-29-2018, 11:01 AM   #137
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

Tom, you know you can look up what life was like for pregnant women pre-Roe, right? You don’t have to imagine how it will be.
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Old 06-29-2018, 11:16 AM   #138
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

So if TrumpRussiaCollusionGate makes it to SCOTUS, Gorsuck and The Next Gorsuck recuse themselves as Trump appointees, right?
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Old 06-29-2018, 11:22 AM   #139
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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So if TrumpRussiaCollusionGate makes it to SCOTUS, Gorsuck and The Next Gorsuck recuse themselves as Trump appointees, right?
LOL
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Old 06-29-2018, 11:32 AM   #140
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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I think you just proved my point. They aren't dying. "gutting social programs", lol, more scare tactics, I could only wish that they were being gutted. They seem to only keep expanding, just not as fast as some would like.


.
wait, you dont think ppl will die from lack of health care and inability to eat?

you pretty much deny reality so there is no point in even interacting with you.
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Old 06-29-2018, 12:00 PM   #141
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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There were rumors of Thomas retiring this week, and my (obviously wild) speculation is that he changed his mind when he heard Kennedy had decided to step down. That means, imo, that the "runner runner" scenario will be even harder to bink, since Thomas will probably retire a year from now. Dems will need to get control of the Senate this year (nearly impossible) and then starting in 2019 block any hearings for 1.5 years until the 2020 pres election.

There might not be enough one times left in the universe.
Source?
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Old 06-29-2018, 12:03 PM   #142
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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I think that would be a very rare event. Because I think a massive "underground railroad" would form to bring even poor woman to one of tens of thousands of health care workers who trained themselves to do the procedure and wouldn't be stopped by a law that they disagreed with.

Actually, I would suggest that the near certainty of such an underground railroad should be pointed out to those who would change the law since such a change would thus not achieve their aims and would just cause them a massive headache.
The more certain outcome of overturning Roe is that access to abortion would depend enormously on where you live and how much money you have. In other words, it would be yet another thing that exacerbates the gap between rich and poor.

I'm not sure how many states would outright ban abortion if Roe were overturned. Maybe 15 or 20?
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Old 06-29-2018, 12:19 PM   #143
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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The more certain outcome of overturning Roe is that access to abortion would depend enormously on where you live and how much money you have. In other words, it would be yet another thing that exacerbates the gap between rich and poor.

I'm not sure how many states would outright ban abortion if Roe were overturned. Maybe 15 or 20?
14 states have anti-abortion laws on the books, 3 of them have no exceptions whatsoever, even if the woman’s life is at risk. Source: today’s Daiky Beast
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Old 06-29-2018, 12:24 PM   #144
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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The more certain outcome of overturning Roe is that access to abortion would depend enormously on where you live and how much money you have. In other words, it would be yet another thing that exacerbates the gap between rich and poor.

I'm not sure how many states would outright ban abortion if Roe were overturned. Maybe 15 or 20?
5-7
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Old 06-29-2018, 12:49 PM   #145
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

Be sure to call in!

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Old 06-29-2018, 02:57 PM   #146
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

It is also significantly harder to run an illegal business in 2018 than 1972.

Sklansky's ridiculous claim that tens of thousands of healthcare workers are going to continue to operate in spite of the laws is laughably stupid.
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:19 PM   #147
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

"More people will die of bee stings than backalley abortions (at least compared to what is there today, I'd imagine there are occasional deaths from abortions in hospitals in rare circumstances). "

Dubious. As I noted above -

The last published article I could find in a peer-reviewed journal seems to suggest a maternal death rate in "unsafe" abortions of about .03%. The most recent # for US abortions I could find was 2014 - 652.5 K or so.

If you assume that every one of those ended up being done illegally (which is a surrogate for the "unsafe" abortion above, you'd end up with somewhere around 1800 deaths. That number is probably way too high - abortion isn't going away in any number of Blue states, which have the highest populations. So as a scientific wild ass guess, several hundred. Of course, you have to add in long term/chronic problems arising from the procedure, which add significant morbidity. So while I doubt you'd see thousands of deaths, you'd see a lot more than we have now (close to zero) and a lot more infectious/chronic infertility problems to go along. I'd also guess the death rate might be lower for a couple of other reasons - the # of abortions being done has been dropping for a decade or so, and I'd guess that a fair number of women who would die from an unsafe abortion in second/third world countries would survive in the US - death is usually from sepsis or bleeding, and both are fixable if you get seen soon enough by someone who knows what to do. But as the current # of deaths is close to zero (I've been practicing for 25 years and have never seen one (or heard of one, for that matter, in the places I work) any increase is going to be significant.

The number of deaths from hymenoptera stings (including bees, yellowjackets, wasps) is consistently 60-80 a year - essentially all from anaphylaxis. If you don't have that, you survive with no long term problems.

So it seems likely that there would be a fair number more of deaths, and a greater number of long term complications (infertility/bowel obstruction/fistula etc.)

Full disclosure - I generated the abortion #'s by eyeball at 2am after a **** shift and a couple of beers. Think they're close, though...

MM MD
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:28 PM   #148
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

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It is also significantly harder to run an illegal business in 2018 than 1972.

Sklansky's ridiculous claim that tens of thousands of healthcare workers are going to continue to operate in spite of the laws is laughably stupid.
Many thousands did exactly that in the 60's when the punishment was certainly higher and the stigma was much much greater.
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Old 06-29-2018, 07:25 PM   #149
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

Healthcare workers need licenses and certifications.
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Old 06-30-2018, 02:18 AM   #150
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Re: SCOTUS BOWL 2018

https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-a...78d079f22.html

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Brett Kavanaugh, 53, of Maryland, U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia — widely respected and very much on Trump’s radar.

Thomas Hardiman, 52, of Pennsylvania, 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals — good chemistry with Trump and White House Counsel Don McGahn. They respect him and like the way he engaged in the process last time, even though he wasn't picked.

Amy Coney Barrett, 46, of Indiana, 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Amul Thapar, 49, of Kentucky, 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals — on the shortlist largely as a courtesy to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.).

Raymond Kethledge, 51, of Michigan, 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
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