Was BruceZ sharing wookie's pms with you?

Not yet.

To be clear, the value in calling racists racists isn't about trying to sit that person down and have a thoughtful and mind changing discourse with them. There are many purposes to speech, many theories of change, and many mixed audiences. I get that you want to make this a safe space where only the type of speech you want to have is protected, but that just isn't how the world works bud

That was 2 years ago. I was in that thread before it got famous! I'm glad you argue with racists in Missouri, and I'll take your word for it, but my point was that lately I haven't seen you actually engaging in any debates against posters you think have racist viewpoints on this forum. If you can't think of any more recent than Bruce I think that's kind of telling.

Not that you are obligated to do so! But I'd point out that if you think the best way to combat racism is to argue with racists, you can always lead by example. I will gladly support you in your efforts.

OK, then how can you possibly know what's in those pms? This seems like a flat-out lie.

Nah, it's not a lie. But it does look like Bruce still reads this forum and that Foldn is in touch with him.

Please let this be the fabulous day where we find out that Bruce has not moved on with his life, but has actually been working behind the scenes for two years, collaborating with his minions, setting the stage for the grand gotcha against the the jack-booted libtards of the 2+2 politics forum.


Close the trap Foldn!

Anyway, since Foldn indicate my request was by PM to Bruce (and Mat), it was a lot easier to find. Here's the excerpt in question:

Clearly, my ultimate desire wasn't to censor Bruce. This request was made in response to Bruce's stated intent to delete posts and ban posters in Politics despite not being a mod there. Asking him to avoid Politics and not participate was to prevent this abuse of power. I also, as is seen there, would have been satisfied with demodding him, as that also would prevent the abuse of power (and without silencing his arguments here).

It's difficult to argue about racism in this forum, because the rules are set up in a way that racists are allowed to be personally attacked while they are censored from responding in kind, and they also tend to get banned for being racist. So as a result, we are left with mostly regular people with maybe a bad idea or two up for debate that get attacked as HUGE RACISTS, and it's difficult to have discussions with them because if you agree with them on any minor points, or even defend those points, you become a HUGE RACIST as well, subject to the same unequal enforcement of the no personal attacks rule, and always on the edge of being banned.

Edit to add: and this is the reason there are no good discussions on racism in this forum. Many of you believe you have nothing to learn from them, and that their speech has no value. Your mistake is being too confident in your own knowledge. Some things you believe are just to sacred to be discussed. This is the illiberal philosophy Jonathan Rauch addresses in his book "Kindly Inquisitors," where he discusses the "humanitarian attack on free speech."

Lolfoldn

After what, two years... LMFAO @SMPers !!!1!

But while I'm laughing out loud, I think this is as good as time as any to drop a little wizdum on our SMP refugee friends: You really need to quit it with the whole "Bruce Z fiasco is old news, so full stop" routine.

None of us care about that odious fool anymore either. The reason we keep bringing him up is two fold: (a) it's a well documented, and well known, example of attempted "tone policing". It's brought up as an example case, for that reason only... it has nothing to do personally with the ancient odios fool who just happened to be the author. And (b) because a lot of the SMP refugees acted out in such a spectacularly LOLtastical manner (ex: if you mod him, he'll return), and a few still get bitter to this very day... it's fun to point & laugh at you dudes.

Seriously, if the post-Bruce Z SMP refugee clown show hadn't insisted on playing the Politards stage for what, a year... we'd be using the odious Silver_Man2 as our go-to example instead. Did I mention LMFAO @SMPers !!!1!

Has Bruce been sharing the erotic Downton Abbey fanfiction that I've been pm'ing him for the past two years? This could be rather embarrassing.

If Bruce had been stable enough not to start personally threatening posters and insulting mods and the SMP crew left behind wasn't a walking group of mental disorders then Bruce would be modding probability and insulting Mexicans to his hearts content on twoplustwo right now.

You seem confused on this one shamey. Maybe it's the SMP thingy.

I'm not getting back involved with the brucez fiasco because I think it's best to draw a line and move on unless there's something productive to do which there currently isnt and most likely never will be. I don't care if you think it's clever to keep going on about it.



Sent from my SM-P600 using 2+2 Forums

Not with that language but an "ask me anything about being a racist" thread wouldn't be offensive to me.

Foldn, serious post, if you have anything novel or interesting to say about racism you are free to PM me. I would be happy to post your arguments and wisdom under my own account and absorb any subsequent repercussions.

Right, but the commercially branded website hosting the forum probably doesn't want that associated with their brand name or business.

There's also this massive FoldN revisionist history going on here. People spoke out against Bruce's abhorrent posts in the politics forum. Bruce came in and threatened to ban mods and other posters outside the forum where he moderated. Mat decided Bruce's abhorrent posts weren't enough to demod a long time contributor (he may have asked Bruce not to post in politics after Bruce had came in and threatened other moderators and posters). Posters who had spoken out against Bruce largely responded by saying they disagreed with the decision, but generally respected Mat's approach to solving the problem even if they disagreed with him. Bruce then threatened PVN via PM and pissed off the other volunteer mods to the point where Mat had to decide whether to lose one mod or lots of mods and made a business decision. Bruce then left the site. He is free to post here today.

Somehow, to FoldN, the issue here was censorship in the politics forum even though Bruce wasn't demoded or banned for his speech but rather demodded for being personally abusive to others. Its also funny because what FoldN is really mad about is that people spoke out about Bruce's views in an uncensored manner (and go back and read the posts, Bruce's views were being criticized on the merits much more so than people flying off the handle, calling him a racist, and asking for him to be censored. The argument was these are abhorrent views and twoplustwo, as a commercial entity, probably shouldn't be supporting such abhorrent views).

Bruce's problems of course, came down to his own actions and lack of self control. But that hasn't stopped the two years of SMP refugee trolling culminating with this latest 1000 post atrocity from FoldN and based on the theory that being called racist is this singularly devastating thing that no mere mortal could respond to without acting like Bruce did.

Agreed, but there has never been an admittedly racist poster itf so i don't know who would start it.

There you go again. When you say "personally attacked", are you including the use of the phrase "you're a r-word" as a personal attack, regardless of context? If so you are... once again... being completely dishonest. Once again, you are "begging the question". And... well there's a site wide rule against spewing racism. Of course racists "tend to get banned for being racist".

But other than this... we once again see a standard play out of the Team #N playbook. Here we have the claim that, if only the meanies wouldn't use the r-word, the nice folks could do 'therapy' on those misguided racists. LMFAO... citation_needed.wtfbbq. Seriously, this never happens here at 2+2.

Yeah, I just wanted to correct Wookie's false statement that he never asked to censor Bruce. Not interested in getting back into it all. Returning to point, many of you have tacitly or even outright admitted this is an anti-racist safe space, where certain ideas are not worth discussing, rules are enforced differently based on viewpoint, and posters are banned for their ideas. Again, that demonstrates the very thing many of you have been denying the entire thread, that the "safe space" culture is widespread. It is most certainly, and you agree with it! This despite constant criticism of that philosophy of censorship from liberals like Rauch, Greenwald, Obama and many more. It's time to face it, you don't really agree with them, you are not as liberal minded as you once thought.

SNAP! Face it guys, he's got you.

Hahaha. Good job continuing your mischaracterizations.

And once again, what is the important argument you want to have that you have not been able to have?

Sound like you might want to PM Mat with your complaints. The ownership doesn't want outright hate speech on twoplustwo. Also, no, Obama doesn't want you to be able to come on here and post about Mexican circus music and how much you think the black people of Ferguson brought things on themselves with their violent culture without those ideas being called out as racist and bigoted nor were the people you mentioned talking about speech as posting on a commercially owned website.

Lets face it you despicable date rapist, you have no idea about basic free speech arguments and this is all because you got sad your racist friend got criticized and exacerbated because you ate a temp ban for your work in this thread. Calling out racists for being racist is not illiberal, we don't have to pretend arguments about whether slaves were lucky ducks have merit and need to be engaged by all in an honest and open dialogue.

Also, remember the one time you moderated a thread? You banned someone because you didn't like their ideas!

No. What you've been doing this entire thread is trying to equate the single-room style "safe space", as you yourself described ITT, with some alleged conspiritardical "movement" to "censor" speech everywhere on a campus, or everywhere period. You really need to cut that shiz out.

Nobody believes 2+2 is a single-room style "safe space". No, this 2+2 website is not part of any speech suppression "movement". Yes, certain content is censored here at 2+2. That's a good thing IMO.

You keep pushing this shiz. Just repeating the same shiz over and over again doesn't make it true. When it comes to the phrase "you're a r-word", it's a matter of a honest difference of personal opinion if this is a personal attack in all contexts. You are... once again... being dishonest and begging the question.

That argument is as facile as it is infantile. I can clearly personally attack anyone using any name I please using that argument. Unbelievable. It should be embarrassing that anyone is convinced by it.