Just read that Turkey apparently started its offensive towards Afrin with massive artillery bombardment on villages there.

Looks pretty ugly. Russian soldiers (advisors - no one should be allowed that euphamism) have pulled out, US says no support. Syria says they'll shoot down Turkish planes.

Informed Comment by Juan Cole describes the odd alliances:

As US throws Kurds under the Bus, Is Turkey preparing to invade Syria?

I'm almost a pacifist nowadays, so I'm not really advocating this, but Turkey is obviously most concerned with Kurds inside Turkey and they are right to be. The best defense for Rojava is probably from attacks from within Turkey. Turkey will not be able to make the YPG/YPJ/SDF/PYD etc surrender in Syria, but they will be able to shell and bomb the cities and towns pretty heavily if the US and Russia stays out of the way. I'm afraid Erdogan sees this as existential for himself personally and will not back down because of sanctions of any kind. Maybe there's some not terribly violent way to force Erdogan out.

I can't link because I was listening to this on the radio, but the analyst on there believed that the Russians had made a deal with the Turks where the Russians will go after Turkey-backed rebels in Syria and Turkey won't complain as long as the Russians stand down when they bomb The Democratic Federation of Northern Syria. So, imo, Turkey sucks ass and I don't know that I ever buy anything from there, but I will boycott Turkey as much as I can. Also, when the PYD turns towards Assad because he's the only one with anti-aircraft capability that will help and people start criticizing the PYD for being cozy with Assad, well, don't be surprised and I'm not going to denounce the PYD because they met with Assad or something like that. There's not that much difference between Assad, Putin and Trump anyway.

Turkish troops along with thr Free Syrian Army who are their allies have taken some villages outside Afrin. There have been some protests in Istanbul and this is the psychopath's statement about that:

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...eration-afrin/

The UN Security Council is meeting on this today.

Working/allying with bad people, cuz the alternative is even worse. It's a true moral conundrum. Not being sarcastic. Reminds me of when we were friends with Sadam, pre Iraq wars. And lots of other circumstances. International relations is hard.

Yeah, but I would like to point out that life or death is different than protecting the interests of other tyrannical regimes like SA and oil companies.

Sure, but that gets us down a road arguing about why the U.S. supported Iraq before the Iraq wars. I guess I'll leave it alone, as it's a tangent to this thread.

Another point... in a very real way, Rojava is on one side (non-hierarchical), and all the other factions/nation-states/etc are on a completely different side (hierarchical). Rojava will never be more than ally of convenience to all the other factions/etc... likewise (and if we ignore Kurdish nationalism) all the other factions/etc will never be more than an ally of convenience to Rojava.

Shelling continues. It's disgusting that the Turks call this "Operation Olive Branch". I want to boycott Turkey as that's about all I can do, but I'm not sure I ever buy anything from Turkey anyway.

This thread needs more activity, I am appalled by what is going on in Turkey right now. Is any major government in the world speaking out against Turkey right now?
They're about to try and commit genocide right now

Guess Turkey will be pressuring the world into denying two genocides.

There have been large demonstrations in France and Germany. Germany has cancelled some arms sales to Turkey. So far the US says our troops are staying in Manbij.

War sucks and I don't want to cheer any side, but Turkey will not roll over Rojava and they are definitely risking/provoking attacks from inside Turkey.

Turkey has arrested about 300 people for criticizm of the invasion of Rojava.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/04/w...rin-syria.html

Below the lead there, Al Queada elements perhaps within the Free Syrian Army, which the US supports, shot down a Russian jet and the Russians retaliated. The FSA is attacking the SDF, which we also support. SNAFU

I see articles from The Daily Sabah all the time. I don't generally read them and haven't posted them because imo it's junk propaganda. If Turkey isn't the number one state for junk propaganda, they are close. This headline I think is worth a post though:

PYD further oppresses Kurdish groups as Turkish operation drains YPG swamp in Afrin

It seems as if a deal between the forces in Afrin and Assad's regime has been reached. There's been rumours of deals since before Turkey began their offensive so it could still turn out to be wrong, but if Reuters has it then I think it's fair to say a deal has probably been agreed, it's just whether it will be stuck to and if it works out as the parties hope.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKCN1G30SB I've thought for a while that the only realistic future for Rojava is 'autonomy' within Syria, but I don't know if a deal negotiated from a position of weakness is going to work out well for them.

Turkey has already said it still wants the current Afrin regime gone as it considers them 'terrorists', and if Assad's forces enter Afrin without that happening they will fight on. I would be surprised if the Turkish Army fought with the SAA, but most of the force attacking Afrin are Syrian 'rebel' militias, so they might be fine with those elements continuing even if Turkey claims to have stopped. As ever just have to wait and see.

Meanwhile the thing where the US killed a bunch of Russian private soldiers involved the SDF and USA vs. Russia and Syrian regime forces.

If Syria and Turkey work together on one side in Rojava there will be a lot of advantage given to Kurdish elements like the peshmerga in Iraq, which would also make the US happy.

http://warisboring.com/turkeys-offen...ow-and-bloody/

Can't vouch for the accuracy of this, but its take is that the Afrin offensive is basically bogged down and not going anywhere.

In Turkey they arrested 800 people for criticizing the attacks. (No link, I heard it on the radio.)

thanks for updates

The nature of the deal between Afrin and the Regime still isn't clear. Some militia that used to fight with Assad have entered the territory, but not many and they could have decided to do that independently. Today it seems like a few pieces of SDF territory have been handed over to the Regime or to Russian forces, but it's not clear why - even speculation that this was a deal agreed with Turkey.

Pretty much as an aisde, by fluke I noticed that the UK parliament briefly 'debated' a report by a select committee on the Kurdish issue today. I've put the link below and a few quotes, I only post it to illustrate the dreadful ignorance that exists in governments that are openly killing civilians in foreign countries. They pat themselves on the back whilst making confused and contradictory points, it's honestly sickening - and that's before you realise that the government sent the Minister for Africa to the debate.

Anyway, perhaps the shortest telling bit is this: So, even though Turkey attacked and is attacking Afrin, what needs to happen is both sides just stop before the UK government will bother to even ask for peace talks. Or something.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Common...fairsCommittee

PS I know what the UK government does or doesn't do is more-or-less totally irrelevant, certainly from a military stand point, but they send their planes to kill people there nonetheless.

Tom Tugendhat's bio (military intelligence in Afghanistan and Iraq) suggests that he should understand. My first thought is that it's a bit of cowtowing to Turkey. I don't get why but everyone is immensely sensitive to Turkey's extreme sensitivity about what is said about them. Just look at the Armenian Genocide.

The response may have had something to do with Dr. David Drew as well. I guess he's a labor party progressive and the conservative Tugendhat may have bristled at the idea of being actually anti-war.

Interesting article about an American who went to fight with the Kurdish militia:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...214-story.html