Rich (Now with the Upper Middle Class) - Page 80 - Politics and Economics

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Rich (Now with the Upper Middle Class)

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07-25-2014 , 04:52 PM

#1976

BadBoyBenny

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorKeeed

A decent minvan like a Honda Odyssey costs more than that SUV

I'm not an expert but I assume the gas and insurance are much less even if sticker price is more

07-25-2014 , 04:54 PM

#1977

revots33

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Onlydo2days

Sure but lol @ those estimations. 11k for a SUV a year? RAV4 is like 20k a few years used, after gas/insurance/maintenance probably like 5k yr.

Well that number comes from the AAA not the USA Today:

Quote:

AAA also factors other expenses in for its report, including routine car maintenance, tire replacement, depreciation, financing and licensing, registration, and taxes. It also adds in the typical insurance paid by a married 47-year-old man with a good driving record who lives in a small city and who drives three to 10 miles daily to work.

SUV
Typical model: Ford Explorer, Jeep Grand Cherokee or Nissan Pathfinder
Cost per mile for gas, maintenance and tires: 23.8 cents
Total cost per year (assuming 15,000 miles driven a year): $11,039

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-much...a-car-in-2014/

That doesn't seem that out of line to me based on my own expenses.

07-25-2014 , 04:54 PM

#1978

SenorKeeed

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Odyssey gets 19/28 mpg, so that's a nope on gas. Don't see why the insurance would be any less, it's not like its the difference between an Odyssey or a Corvette. They're both family cars.

07-25-2014 , 04:57 PM

#1979

SenorKeeed

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And yeah people consistently underestimate the costs of driving a car per year pretty spectacularly. The average American spends like 8k a year to own a car. So yeah obviously for a slightly nicer car it's going to be a few thousand more. 11k seems right on the money.

5k per year is laughable. And people living the American dream are buying a used car? lol? Buying a new car is like the embodiment of the American dream.

07-25-2014 , 05:03 PM

#1980

SenorKeeed

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Nothing says "living the American Dream" like buying a 2011 Rav 4!

07-25-2014 , 05:04 PM

#1981

ikestoys

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,428

Honda Odysseys do not cost more than a comparable SUV, much less a 4wd SUV. Don't make the mistake of looking at a C-RV sized SUV, that's a C-class segment SUV, it's built on a chassis about the size of a focus/civic/corolla. If someone is buying that they don't need a minivan either. More comparable is the Pilot, which is 1k more at the 2wd model and 3k more for the 4wd model.

07-25-2014 , 05:24 PM

#1982

JayTeeMe

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I'm pretty sure middle class people drive non-brand new cars.

07-25-2014 , 05:25 PM

#1983

SenorKeeed

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Right but not American Dream level middle class people

07-25-2014 , 11:09 PM

#1984

dessin d'enfant

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Quote:

Originally Posted by schu_22

And if, as they say, only 1 in 8 Americans can actually life that lifestyle, is that middle-class? Maybe in the 60s when inequality wasn't out of control and wages were still right in line with growth, but not today. People have to abuse credit and cut corners to get by.

Seemed pretty middle class to me. Nothing extravagant and no savings outside retirement and college funds.

07-25-2014 , 11:59 PM

#1985

Trolly McTrollson

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In a vacuum, a new 4WD SUV isn't out of reach for Joe Sixpack. It's the new car on top of the big suburban house, college tuition, 17k in retirement savings, $250+ on groceries, vacations, etc. etc. where things start to get out of hand --no single item on its own is especially unattainable. Your typical family near the median salary can afford some of these things, but not all of them at the same time.

07-26-2014 , 12:05 AM

#1986

dessin d'enfant

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Your typical family near the median salary can afford some of these things, but not all of them at the same time.

Sure, and nobody was saying that that family is living the minimum middle class lifestyle. Just that nothing they did placed them above middle class.

07-26-2014 , 12:09 AM

#1987

Trolly McTrollson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dessin d'enfant

Sure, and nobody was saying that that family is living the minimum middle class lifestyle. Just that nothing they did placed them above middle class.

I guess in that case I don't see any distinction between "American Dream" and "rich". If you can afford every single trapping of the middle class and then some, that suggests to me that you're right at the line where you cross over from upper-middle class to lower-upper class. 130k doesn't seem like a terrible place to draw that line.

07-26-2014 , 12:16 AM

#1988

Onlydo2days

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yeah 5k is low but you drive the car 6-7 years (toyotas can last forever without too many problems into the 6 figure mile range) then i think it is only like 7k yr. Not sure why both people need brand new SUVs either but I guess it did say American Dream, not American middle class.

Kanye killed the swag of the Rav4 forever when he said wtf you think I rap for, to push a ****in rav4

07-26-2014 , 12:16 AM

#1989

schu_22

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dessin d'enfant

Seemed pretty middle class to me. Nothing extravagant and no savings outside retirement and college funds.

So which is it? Middle Class, or American Dream? The American dream isn't to sit at the 50th percentile

07-26-2014 , 12:26 AM

#1990

SenorKeeed

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The American Dream is by definition middle class. It's not "work hard and become filthy rich," it's "work hard and achieve a comfortable and secure lifestyle". You own a home, you live in a nice neighborhood, you can take a vacation every now and then, you have a retirement nest egg, you can buy a mid-level new car, etc. Modest but secure.

07-26-2014 , 12:29 AM

#1991

dessin d'enfant

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

There is no lower upper class. It goes

poor (+assorted euphemisms)
lower middle class
middle class
upper middle class
rich (+assorted euphemisms)

Those are pretty much the only terms people actually use.

07-26-2014 , 12:30 AM

#1992

dessin d'enfant

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Quote:

Originally Posted by schu_22

So which is it? Middle Class, or American Dream? The American dream isn't to sit at the 50th percentile

The American Dream was sold as something that anybody could get and by definition a middle class lifestyle.

07-26-2014 , 12:37 AM

#1993

schu_22

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dessin d'enfant

The American Dream was sold as something that anybody could get and by definition a middle class lifestyle.

So when only 1 in 8 people achieve this "middle class" lifestyle that "anybody could get" ...help me reconcile this gaping difference here

07-26-2014 , 12:42 AM

#1994

dessin d'enfant

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Quote:

Originally Posted by schu_22

So when only 1 in 8 people achieve this "middle class" lifestyle that "anybody could get" ...help me reconcile this gaping difference here

Anybody<>Everybody. John Oliver talked about this in his wealth gap segment

Its a very American concept, perhaps broken now, but still the way we view the world.

07-26-2014 , 12:43 AM

#1995

schu_22

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It's not the way I view the world. And yes, broken. So why do you still follow that train of thought?

07-26-2014 , 12:48 AM

#1996

dessin d'enfant

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Quote:

Originally Posted by schu_22

It's not the way I view the world. And yes, broken. So why do you still follow that train of thought?

I'm just talking about what phrases like "upper middle class", "American Dream" mean. I don't decide what they mean, everybody else does.

07-26-2014 , 12:49 AM

#1997

SenorKeeed

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It's not following any train of thought. It is simply recognizing that the American Dream's meaning, as it's talked about in present day America, is having enough money and stability to live a certain lifestyle. And that concept is by definition describing a middle class lifestyle.

07-26-2014 , 12:51 AM

#1998

schu_22

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So when the definition doesn't match the reality of the number of people who are able to actually attain that lifestyle...

Look I understand the train of thought, and I'm telling you how idiotic it is

07-26-2014 , 12:55 AM

#1999

SenorKeeed

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I don't understand what you're arguing. Are you saying that now the American Dream includes being able to buy a pre-owned Rav 4? Like there has to be a constant percent of people realizing the American Dream? And there is always like 15% poors, no matter how income distribution shifts?

07-26-2014 , 01:03 AM

#2000

schu_22

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The American Dream cannot be middle class if only 1 in 8 people attain it, DUCY?

As Trolly said, they are upper-middle class because middle-class folk today do not buy new cars, max out 401Ks, fund their children's college, take a 5K vacation etc etc etc all at the same time. You have to pick and choose. The American Dream as they state it is solidly UMC

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