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Rich (Now with the Upper Middle Class) Rich (Now with the Upper Middle Class)

07-13-2014 , 08:24 AM
And then when they get older there's private school tuition, cars and insurance for the kids, saving up the 200k+ it will take to send each one to college, and your own retirement. lol at being able to do all that at 120k/year
07-13-2014 , 09:04 AM
Did people here who consider themselves middle class actually have parents pay for college? I always figured only rich people did that.
07-13-2014 , 09:05 AM
Middle class parents don't pay for college UMC and above do
07-13-2014 , 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorKeeed
And then when they get older there's private school tuition, cars and insurance for the kids, saving up the 200k+ it will take to send each one to college, and your own retirement. lol at being able to do all that at 120k/year
No one is claiming that 120k is enough to do whatever you want. FFS to make your bull**** work you're claiming living in NYC, having a car (lol), going to private school, and going to a ludicrously expensive undergraduate school. You're simply describing someone trying to live beyond their means.
07-13-2014 , 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by champstark
Did people here who consider themselves middle class actually have parents pay for college? I always figured only rich people did that.
I consider my upbringing middle class and not UMC because my parents couldn't afford to pay all/most of my college expenses.
07-13-2014 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys
No one is claiming that 120k is enough to do whatever you want. FFS to make your bull**** work you're claiming living in NYC, having a car (lol), going to private school, and going to a ludicrously expensive undergraduate school. You're simply describing someone trying to live beyond their means.
Exactly? I'm describing an UMC lifestyle and noting that it's trivially obvious that a family making 120k can't lead that lifestyle in Omaha let alone NYC.
07-13-2014 , 10:07 AM
With 2 kids, federal income tax on 120K is $15K, so whoopsie to the 80K mark

And yeah, nobody here is claiming $120K is rich...just that it's upper-middle class
07-13-2014 , 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorKeeed
Exactly? I'm describing an UMC lifestyle and noting that it's trivially obvious that a family making 120k can't lead that lifestyle in Omaha let alone NYC.
My family made around ~80-110k a year when I was in school (they make much more now because my mom works full time). Didn't have to go to a private school because we lived in a great school district. Paid for a car (easier when you're a ford employee). Paid for all my stupid soccer ****. Paid for a great college. Paid for a half of my wedding.

Did the same for two other kids.

Not UMC!
07-13-2014 , 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys
My family made around ~80-110k a year when I was in school (they make much more now because my mom works full time). Didn't have to go to a private school because we lived in a great school district. Paid for a car (easier when you're a ford employee). Paid for all my stupid soccer ****. Paid for a great college. Paid for a half of my wedding.

Did the same for two other kids.

Not UMC!
Errrr....you're upper middle class because of that lifestyle and the fact that your family makes much more than 110k. I think your family could afford pretty much everything I said is typical of UMC.
07-13-2014 , 10:19 AM
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07-13-2014 , 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dessin d'enfant
Errrr....you're upper middle class because of that lifestyle and the fact that your family makes much more than 110k. I think your family could afford pretty much everything I said is typical of UMC.
No, they didn't. My mom didn't work full time until well after I graduated college and married.

My parents were just not idiots with their money.
07-13-2014 , 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schu_22
I agree with this....but still huge lol @ an early 30s couple with only two kids ever struggling to make ends meet with a household income of 120K. That sort of money management incapability is pretty unfathomable
It really depends on how much goes to student loans.

Daycare costs are going to be around 1k per month per kid so 2,000 for that

If they have advanced degrees then student loan payments could easily be 1,500 per month or more combined

Both will need reliable cars plus insurance + maintenance + gas. Even with cheaper, used but still reliable cars like a Honda purchased with 50k miles the total costs could be 500 per month per car

That's 4500 without buying groceries, diapers, doctor copays, clothes or mortgage.

One or both jobs might be in a field where professional dress is required in which case clothing can add up to a lot and not buying nice clothes could be actually affect their career potential (I think this would be case at a law firm or bank executive track position)

They are still getting it done without taking on a lot of debt, will be set in 5 years as daycare costs go away, and could make some sacrifices if necessary to lower expenses, but at the time it feels like their lifestyle is worse than their middle class childless friends who make significantly less so they would resent the upper middle class designation.
07-13-2014 , 10:29 AM
Yeah lol at private school tuition. Around here if you can choose private school over a good school district that is a clear line that you're rich and not upper middle class.
07-13-2014 , 10:34 AM
Student loans will be paid off in 10 years.

Daycare costs only apply for a few years.

After that, aaaaaallll of that $4K or whatever per month can go to upgrading to a better house, buying the kids a car, college tuition, everything.

I don't know how you think regular middle-class people get by on 60-70K household income/month.
07-13-2014 , 10:54 AM
Well, most families living on 60k are swimming in debt with no realistic plan for retirement.
07-13-2014 , 11:01 AM
I'm not sure a family of four can even eat healthy anymore without earning close to six figures.
07-13-2014 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schu_22
Student loans will be paid off in 10 years.

Daycare costs only apply for a few years.

After that, aaaaaallll of that $4K or whatever per month can go to upgrading to a better house, buying the kids a car, college tuition, everything.
That's exactly what I said. They are UMC, they just won't feel like it for fixe years and consequently will resent the designation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schu_22
I don't know how you think regular middle-class people get by on 60-70K household income/month.
Well hopefully they don't have the massive student loan debt that the 120k couple will have, if they do they're basically screwed. And there's usually extended family support (grandparent babysitting) to reduce the daycare expense. They'll typically have less reliable vehicles which can add risk of job loss or whatever. And their federal income tax bill is probably near zero once they take all deductions. Hopefully they don't need as expensive of a wardrobe for their profession.

A lot of the 60-70k couples that I know with children younger than school age have one person who is some sort of 9-5 professional position and one that works different hours like nurse, server, bartender, or even night shift at a factory, in which case they don't see each other so much but can avoid daycare entirely with some help from the grandmas.
07-13-2014 , 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33
A basic, small 3-BR house in the NY/NJ/CT suburbs is close to $400k.
Are they really this low? You have to get way out to the high desert in LA, or living a really bad part of the hood to get anything close to this.

Just about anywhere in LA county $400k will generally get you a pretty crappy two bedroom condo built in the 70s - with a $300+ HOA fee to boot.
07-13-2014 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schu_22
I agree with this....but still huge lol @ an early 30s couple with only two kids ever struggling to make ends meet with a household income of 120K. That sort of money management incapability is pretty unfathomable
My parents have 3 kids and make $120k. I can confirm this is still solidly middle class. And they're in the midwest.
07-13-2014 , 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
Are they really this low? You have to get way out to the high desert in LA, or living a really bad part of the hood to get anything close to this.

Just about anywhere in LA county $400k will generally get you a pretty crappy two bedroom condo built in the 70s - with a $300+ HOA fee to boot.
400k is in the lower end but possible if you're wiling to do 1 hour 1 way commute and live without a good public high school, down to about exit 8A on the Jersey Turnpike. See this for example: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/13...55547109_zpid/

As you get closer to Tower Center that runs buses to NYC non-stop (during rush hour, literally nonstop, a departure every 2 or 3 minutes packed with commuters) and New Brunswick train station, prices go up pretty quickly.

Instead of HoA fees, you pay high property taxes in NJ for some of the best (non-magnet) public schools in the country.
07-13-2014 , 02:59 PM
Yeah if you want the best public schools around me you have to live in Manhattan Beach, where a lot costs $1M+.
07-13-2014 , 03:02 PM
I think part of the issue is Manhattan is geographically isolated. Driving into it is not really an option for regular commuters so you have this odd situation where prices are dictated more by proximity to transportation hubs than proximity to Manhattan itself.
07-13-2014 , 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterwolves
I'm not sure a family of four can even eat healthy anymore without earning close to six figures.
They can if one of the four is a full time home caretaker, otherwise no shot in any of the major metropolitan areas of USA.
07-13-2014 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy

Instead of HoA fees, you pay high property taxes in NJ for some of the best (non-magnet) public schools in the country.
Yes and property taxes on a starter home in NJ can easily be $10k+ per year (depending on the town), which is almost like a second mortgage payment. There is simply no way a family with children making $120k each is upper middle class in the suburban NYC/NJ real estate market. They could obviously make ends meet but they couldn't live in a UMC suburb. They are solidly middle class and will live in middle class suburb.
07-13-2014 , 11:06 PM
I thought 10k sounded high.

Then I looked this up.

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxa...t/gtr13mid.pdf

LolNJ

      
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