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Ralph Northam:  Update — Get Used to Me Staying Ralph Northam:  Update — Get Used to Me Staying

02-02-2019 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by champstark
This is a good point and I was briefly tempted to see if eBay allows people to sell such things, but then I realized I'd rather not know.
I hope eBay doesn’t. That said, I’m sure there are right wing versions of eBay or craigslist or whatever that allow it. I just meant that generally speaking, it wasn’t as easy to get things like that before the internet.
02-02-2019 , 10:54 AM
i've said and done a ton of racist **** not only because i grew up in the south but because i'm an american and systemic, institutionalized discrimination has made it so that racism is completely engrained into our mentalities from a very young age

with that said, i never dressed up as a KKK member or made jokes about their murderous, subversive history tho. and i also never ran a campaign to be governor of my state. i also never raped or otherwise forced myself onto any women. this "boys will be boys" angle is one of the worst takes out there.

and fwiw, i think racist mentalities are easier to address and correct than somebody who possesses a rapist mentality, but i never saw anybody actually equating kavanaugh/northam to begin with, so idk what the **** youre really talking about here anyway

bottom line is that i'd be up in arms if a republican was shown to be masquerading in a KKK costume- today, yesterday, 30 years ago, doesn't matter. making light of such a heinous organization that has a long and storied history of infiltrating local government and law enforcement is a disqualifier, period. and because i'm morally consistent and not a complete piece of ****, i hold members of my own party to the same standard and don't give them passes simply because they have a D next to their name
02-02-2019 , 10:58 AM
Don’t see any reason for him not to resign, even if they cook up good enough PR response to survive next couple days, how does he expect to accomplish anything with this plastered everywhere? Also worth noting this was Med school so I would imagine he was at least in mid 20s which is quite a bit different than highschool as far as level of expected judgement.
02-02-2019 , 10:59 AM
the privilege in that take is amazing tho. do you think that his black constituents are as comfortable as you are with chalking this up as a youthful indiscretion committed by somebody who has sincerely, earnestly changed his way of thinking and can be counted on to properly acknowledge the history of this country and stand up for justice and equality?

there's no reason whatsoever that his lieutenant governor can't/shouldn't fill his shoes and do the job free from unnecessary scrutiny and suspicion.
02-02-2019 , 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFS
Fellow whites,

I believe that many men are quick to consider the possibility that a guy who sexually assaulted a woman when he was 17 has changed and is now a fine upstanding adult because they too behaved inappropriately with women when they were young. I believe that most men would not look very good if their very worst behavior were recorded and/or testified to. That includes people who have legitimately grown and changed and become better people. That includes me, definitely for the former and hopefully for the latter.

Similarly, I believe that most white people (men at least) have said or done or said something racially insensitive or outright racist at some point when they were young and stupid and would not want the details recorded and presented for posterity. I again include myself here.

Because of this stuff, because we know when we were total and complete ****heads for a good period of our lives and hopefully no longer are, we don't want to be forever condemned for stuff we did or said before our brains were fully developed.

I think there's something to that, but consider the fact that women and minorities absolutely know that this a huge reason why people can find defenses of Kavanaugh and Northam. They also know it because they have spent their entire lives using the goddamn buddy system when they want to go out drinking in college or walking into rooms full of laughter that suddenly go silent when they enter.

I have no conclusion, I don't know the answer. I don't think excusing abhorrent behavior is right, but I also don't think we must answer for our 17 year old selves forever. Actual change is going to require a cultural shift over a very long period of time and I think the Kavanaughs and Northams are going to have to answer for all of our sins.
I’m not defending Kavanaugh because he attempted to rape somebody and that is worse than this. That said, Northam wasn’t in the “adolescent without fully formed brain” stage. He chose this as his yearbook photo in his last year of medical school. So we’re talking, what, mid to late 20’s? I think I read this was 30 years ago and he is 59, so that would make him 29 at the time. I mean, for context, you’re talking about someone who’s the same age as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
02-02-2019 , 11:06 AM
LFS' post seems generally right but Northam wasn't 17 at that point so he shouldn't be in that category and should get **** for what he did.
02-02-2019 , 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakmelk
LFS' post seems generally right but Northam wasn't 17 at that point so he shouldn't be in that category and should get **** for what he did.
17 year olds who attempt to rape somebody should not have a seat on the Supreme Court either. They are both scumbags.
02-02-2019 , 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakmelk
LFS' post seems generally right but Northam wasn't 17 at that point so he shouldn't be in that category and should get **** for what he did.
And, just to be clear, you are arguing that 17 year old’s do not have fully formed brains and should be treated as children and not as adults?
02-02-2019 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
And, just to be clear, you are arguing that 17 year old’s do not have fully formed brains and should be treated as children and not as adults?
02-02-2019 , 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
17 year olds who attempt to rape somebody should not have a seat on the Supreme Court either. They are both scumbags.
Im not going to requote LFS his post, it is right there, people change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
And, just to be clear, you are arguing that 17 year old’s do not have fully formed brains and should be treated as children and not as adults?
The likelihood of 17 year olds not having a fully formed brain is much higher vs a 27 year old. Some 17 year olds will have fully formed brains, others will not. If your post was meant as some kind of hilarious pun maybe think about what kind of forum you're trying to run here.
02-02-2019 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
And, just to be clear, you are arguing that 17 year old’s do not have fully formed brains and should be treated as children and not as adults?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakmelk
The likelihood of 17 year olds not having a fully formed brain is much higher vs a 27 year old. Some 17 year olds will have fully formed brains, others will not. If your post was meant as some kind of hilarious pun maybe think about what kind of forum you're trying to run here.
lol gtfo here with your pedo apologia/propaganda, the medical consensus is that nobody's brain fully develops until at least age 25 or so

not speaking for jman, but i think most of us want a forum which respects moral/logical consistency and basic facts. so maybe you should go back to OOT

Last edited by fxwacgesvrhdtf; 02-02-2019 at 11:34 AM. Reason: Borderline personal attack.
02-02-2019 , 11:32 AM
The fully formed brain was obviously in the context of being treated as an adult, sorry if you missed that or if it wasn't clear enough.

Last edited by Yakmelk; 02-02-2019 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Seems obvious unless you believe that I believe that everyone suddenly has a fully formed brain at the age of 18
02-02-2019 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakmelk
Im not going to requote LFS his post, it is right there, people change.

The likelihood of 17 year olds not having a fully formed brain is much higher vs a 27 year old. Some 17 year olds will have fully formed brains, others will not. If your post was meant as some kind of hilarious pun maybe think about what kind of forum you're trying to run here.
The correct answer was: Yes, 17 year old’s do not have fully formed brains and should be treated as children.
02-02-2019 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
People absolutely get to change and become better versions of themselves. They just don’t get to become governor of a state. He wants to go back to being a doctor that’s fine by me.
I typically agree with you, jman, but this is a really bad take. I would argue that a person who once held racist beliefs, grew/matured and figured out they were wrong, and then renounced those beliefs would often make a much better candidate for public office than some person who grew up in a liberal bastion, was raised being taught appropriate political views by his or her parents, and never once questioned them.
02-02-2019 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakmelk
The fully formed brain was obviously in the context of being treated as an adult, sorry if you missed that or it wasn't clear enough.
no, you were just wrong. you can stop now.

Last edited by fxwacgesvrhdtf; 02-02-2019 at 11:50 AM.
02-02-2019 , 11:37 AM


Oof
02-02-2019 , 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2Burn
I typically agree with you, jman, but this is a really bad take. I would argue that a person who once held racist beliefs, grew/matured and figured out they were wrong, and then renounced those beliefs would often make a much better candidate for public office than some person who grew up in a liberal bastion, was raised being taught appropriate political views by his or her parents, and never once questioned them.
I mean, I could maybe buy into that, if he publicly renounced this photo decades ago and owned it, on his own. Maybe.
02-02-2019 , 11:52 AM


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02-02-2019 , 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2Burn
I typically agree with you, jman, but this is a really bad take. I would argue that a person who once held racist beliefs, grew/matured and figured out they were wrong, and then renounced those beliefs would often make a much better candidate for public office than some person who grew up in a liberal bastion, was raised being taught appropriate political views by his or her parents, and never once questioned them.
Show us his renouncing this behavior prior to this incident. Of course people can change and we should give them room to do so, BUT there is no proof that this guy has changed. The change can’t be motivated by keeping your job, especially as a public servant. Let him go change and show us that change when he runs for the next public service job.
02-02-2019 , 11:56 AM
Actions speak louder than words.
02-02-2019 , 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
I mean, I could maybe buy into that, if he publicly renounced this photo decades ago and owned it, on his own. Maybe.

Is it possible he forgot about it? It was college. Id like to forget the 1986 movie Soulman about a white dude doing blackface. Did the actor and studio not realize that was offensive.

I am not sure how his opposition missed this also?
02-02-2019 , 12:09 PM
Should someone like Christian Picciolini be allowed to hold public office?
02-02-2019 , 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by champstark


jlawok.gif
Are we going to see an indignant, angry, crying rant? I hope he has a calendar.
02-02-2019 , 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
Should someone like Christian Picciolini be allowed to hold public office?
Did he kill anyone while a skin head? What is his platform? How well can he get the vote out? Can he convince people he has changed.

Maybe it’s time to stop treating public offices as something people have a right to and stop looking for reasons to keep people with questionable pasts in any longer than it takes to verify their past?
02-02-2019 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
Are we going to see an indignant, angry, crying rant? I hope he has a calendar.
Was the picture one that he chose or on someone else’s profile with him being identified by a third party?

      
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