"Get used to me slaying": The Journal of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - Page 51 - Politics and Economics

I like that she explained how progressive taxation works instead of letting dumbasses assume a 60% tax rate on income over $10-million means you pay $6 million in tax.

01-04-2019 , 03:43 PM

#1253

synth_floyd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 7,074

They need to fund the IRS more to catch tax cheats. It's like that old saying, "Don't pass new laws, enforce the ones on the book."

01-04-2019 , 03:47 PM

#1254

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by synth_floyd

They need to fund the IRS more to catch tax cheats. It's like that old saying, "Don't pass new laws, enforce the ones on the book."

I forget where I read this, but I saw a statistic of something like the IRS getting a return of $5 on every $1 it gets in funding. (at a specific level, obviously there's diminishing returns the more funding they get)

Conservatives don't want the IRS to get that money.

01-04-2019 , 04:12 PM

#1255

JoltinJake

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,236

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregorio

I like that she explained how progressive taxation works instead of letting dumbasses assume a 60% tax rate on income over $10-million means you pay $6 million in tax.

If Democrats are ever able to overhaul tax rates, they should get rid of this. I can't tell you how many people I've had to explain this to. I'm honestly not sure I've ever met a "normal" (non-accountant, non-political junkie) person who understood it. They all think they're paying their highest marginal rate on all income.

And critically, it helps the GOP because it makes tax rates seem higher than they are.

Just use a smooth function table that accomplishes the same thing with one effective rate.

01-04-2019 , 04:22 PM

#1256

Ocasio2018

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,220

( twitter | raw text )

01-04-2019 , 04:24 PM

#1257

spidercrab

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 3,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoltinJake

If Democrats are ever able to overhaul tax rates, they should get rid of this. I can't tell you how many people I've had to explain this to. I'm honestly not sure I've ever met a "normal" (non-accountant, non-political junkie) person who understood it. They all think they're paying their highest marginal rate on all income.

And critically, it helps the GOP because it makes tax rates seem higher than they are.

Just use a smooth function table that accomplishes the same thing with one effective rate.

What? Are you saying:
A) Use a smooth function that continuously increases the rate as taxable income increases?
or
B) Use a single tax rate on all dollars of income?
or
C) Something else?

A) doesn't fix the messaging problem because dumb people will just look at the highest rate on the curve the same way they look at the highest marginal rate now.

B) is bad because flat tax rates are dumb.

C) is the solution that I assume I'm misunderstanding

01-04-2019 , 04:29 PM

#1258

simplicitus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,840

330k likes, yozwa.

01-04-2019 , 04:49 PM

#1259

JoltinJake

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,236

Quote:

Originally Posted by spidercrab

I'm saying (A). Not sure what you mean by "highest rate on the curve". What curve? There would only be one rate for each person and it would obviously be lower than the highest marginal rate that person is paying under the current system.

01-04-2019 , 04:50 PM

#1260

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,911

Don't think this would be an easy sell:

https://log10tax.wordpress.com/

Quote:

a = m + [√(bm) * ln (b/m)], where

a = net income after taxes
b = net income before taxes
m = minimum wage

01-04-2019 , 05:00 PM

#1261

JoltinJake

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,236

There's no need to present equations to people. Just provide a table that says if you make $X, you pay Y% tax.

People don't understand how it works now, anyway. They just send their W-2 along to their accountant or plug the numbers into TurboTax or whatever.

01-04-2019 , 05:00 PM

#1262

AllTheCheese

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,898

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...nt-tax-1080874

Mmm. Get 'em.

01-04-2019 , 05:02 PM

#1263

AllTheCheese

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,898

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoltinJake

You can even print the table on a postcard to troll Paul Ryan.

01-04-2019 , 05:09 PM

#1264

ANONNNN

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoltinJake

This might just be me admitting that I'm bad at math - but doesn't this run into the problem that every idiot currently thinks exists where you make a few extra dollars in overtime this year and suddenly your entire income is taxed at a higher rate? Isn't the benefit of marginal taxation avoiding situations like that?

01-04-2019 , 05:15 PM

#1265

JoltinJake

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,236

You could even keep rates exactly as they are now if you don't like logarithmic functions for whatever reason. The important part is rebranding tax rates as effective rates instead of "brackets".

Right now, someone who makes $40k looks at the tax brackets and thinks ZOMG I'M PAYING 25% TAXES OUTRAGEOUS. When, in fact, that person is actually only paying 14.35% tax.

So just provide a table where they can look up their income and get one rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllTheCheese

You can even print the table on a postcard to troll Paul Ryan.

01-04-2019 , 05:21 PM

#1266

JoltinJake

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,236

Quote:

Originally Posted by catfacemeowmers

I think the confusion on this point comes mainly from the brackets. People think if you go from $37,950 to $37,951 that you go from paying 15% tax to 25% tax on all income.

If you provide a table instead, people would see the rate is 13.77% in both cases. And that it's virtually the same as you go up... 13.78% at $37,990. Etc.

01-04-2019 , 05:45 PM

#1267

dth123451

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 15,502

People are never going to get it. Ever. Just pound away that the rich aren’t paying their fair share. Sending people to HillaryClinton.com or whatever to explain basic math isn’t a winner.

01-04-2019 , 05:54 PM

#1268

Ocasio2018

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,220

( twitter | raw text )

01-04-2019 , 05:58 PM

#1269

bobman0330

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 24,234

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoltinJake

Do you mean this?

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

But with the average tax rate instead of the tax?

01-04-2019 , 06:14 PM

#1270

spidercrab

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 3,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobman0330

Do you mean this?

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

But with the average tax rate instead of the tax?

I'll admit I had no idea what he meant. But now I see he means just change the way it's advertised?

LOL that's not going to change anything. The economics are exactly the same, and now you're just going to be accused of covering it up.

01-04-2019 , 06:36 PM

#1271

Ocasio2018

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,220

( twitter | raw text )

01-04-2019 , 06:39 PM

#1272

JoltinJake

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,236

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobman0330

Do you mean this?

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

But with the average tax rate instead of the tax?

Yes, the effective rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spidercrab

The way things are advertised makes a huge difference in politics. People are dumb and misinformed and think they pay a higher tax rate than they really do. Not helpful when Democrats want to raise taxes to pay for ****.

Thankfully most people are into raising taxes on the wealthy right now, but that 70% number sounds like a bridge too far for a lot of people, hence AOC's need to explain it.

As for the accusations of hiding the brackets, that's one reason why I prefer a smooth function.

01-04-2019 , 08:17 PM

#1273

simplicitus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,840

Around 800k likes is apparently enough to break into the top 10 all time. http://time.com/4263227/most-popular-tweets/

To be a congressperson who comes near that after 9 hours (currently at 500k) seems wild. Like if she declared for Senate she would have an army of volunteers and donations. It's her's for the asking against Gillibrand imo, and she'd maybe beat Schumer. ("Paging Kristen Gillibrand, your social media director is calling on the red phone.")

AOC bestrides the world like a colossus.

(And she got a thumbs up within 24 hrs from Molly F***ing Ringwald, Ally Sheedy, and Phoenix.)

Last edited by simplicitus; 01-04-2019 at 08:22 PM.