Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Politics political discourse

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-13-2017, 12:03 PM   #62276
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 46,568
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
Yeah I'm not the one shifting the goalposts here...
That's arguing in bad faith. Fly's post about a goalpost shift was obviously a good point.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:05 PM   #62277
Max Cut
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Max Cut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The right to bear buckets of rocks
Posts: 8,592
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Sweet super volcano of death, deliver us from pedantry.
Max Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:06 PM   #62278
Clovis8
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Having a beer with Charles Darwin
Posts: 14,060
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by +rep_lol View Post
As pointed out before, germany censors nazis and they seem to be doing far better wrt the effects than us not censoring them
No a month ago the AfD won 1/8 control of Germanys parliment. The AfD are literal neo-nazis.
Clovis8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:08 PM   #62279
Huehuecoyotl
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Huehuecoyotl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: It's hard to get by on a smile
Posts: 24,464
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
As a top executive at AccuWeather, Barry Myers has pushed for limits on the kinds of products that the National Weather Service offers to the public, saying they offered unfair competition to his industry.

Now, President Donald Trump's nomination of Myers to lead the weather service's parent agency could allow him to make those kinds of restrictions mandatory — to the benefit of his family-run forecasting company.


The AccuWeather CEO's nomination to head the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is stirring criticism from people who worry he would hobble the weather service, which provoked an industry backlash more than a decade ago by making hour-by-hour forecasts, cellphone alerts and other consumer-friendly data widely available online. A bill that Myers supported 12 years ago, sponsored by then-Sen. Rick Santorum, would have prohibited the agency from competing with private providers in most circumstances.
A window in the weird private market fetishism that infects Republicans. The government created an industry backlash by providing hour by hour updates? Like the government can't even improve its services least it puts a dent in some CEO's wallet. The guy doesn't even have any scientific experience

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/1...y-myers-243735
Huehuecoyotl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:09 PM   #62280
+rep_lol
El Guapo
 
+rep_lol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,484
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
No a month ago the AfD won 1/8 control of Germanys parliment. The AfD are literal neo-nazis.
ya and the neo-nazis here in america have a full on sympathizer who might as well be a card carrying member based on his attitudes towards immigrants, black people, puerto ricans, etc, in the highest executive position of our government (as well as the top law enforcement official), and he appointed actual white supremacists/neo nazis like stephen miller and sebastian gorka to advise him, so i'd say they're still doing quite a bit better than we are.

i'd say that controlling the govt from the top down is a far worse result than being a fringe party in parliament
+rep_lol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:12 PM   #62281
chezlaw
Limey Bastard
 
chezlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Posts: 33,534
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
Exactly. I'm happy, even eager, to be engaged on the debate. I find that the valuble part of the thread. I actually love to be proven wrong and generally conceed when it happens, as I did with noodle last night. Perhaps I'm too slow to do so sometimes.

What I find tiresome and not worthy of our side is the personal attacks, mob mentally and constant relitigation of past events. If chez or I are as monumentally stupid as FLY seems to believe address our arguments. They should be very easy to refute.

I also think there is a dangerous tendency itt sometimes (to which I am guilty as well) at not allowing even the tiniest shred of dissent or disagreement with the group consensus. I would guess my views align something like 95% with most people itt, even fly. Yet some attack me like I'm some kind of trumpkin for wavering slightly from group consensus. This does not foster healthy debate where we can all learn from each other.

Lastly, every debate is not a derail. Discussions of free speech boundaries could not be more core to Trumps presidency.
Fly is opposed to reasonable political debate. No-one ever changes, it's all about power, arguments make no difference etc etc.

It's hard to credit how someone so intelligent can notice that power matters in political change and somehow conclude that therefore the arguments don't matter. And yet:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf View Post
This goes to Clovis and David too, but y'all may want to consult one(1) history book and discover that literally ****ing no issue has ever been resolved through logical and reasoned debate. Politics is about power and the exercise thereof.
chezlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:13 PM   #62282
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 46,568
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by +rep_lol View Post
As pointed out before, germany censors nazis and they seem to be doing far better wrt the effects than us not censoring them
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
No a month ago the AfD won 1/8 control of Germanys parliment. The AfD are literal neo-nazis.
Instead of attributing the fall of Nazism in Germany to either reasoned discourse or censorship I wouldn't overlook the impact of killing millions of them, flattening many of their large cities, and hanging many of their leaders.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:15 PM   #62283
+rep_lol
El Guapo
 
+rep_lol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,484
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

^certainly, but i guess clovis would object to that too
+rep_lol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:16 PM   #62284
iamnotawerewolf
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
iamnotawerewolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Every change I've ever made
Posts: 24,846
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
That's arguing in bad faith. Fly's post about a goalpost shift was obviously a good point.
no, the goalpost was originally "they admit they want to dehumanize blacks"

and offered was "puerto rico response was too little too late"

those are not the same targets

functionally, the point of the original was that, through discussion, if it would come out that a guy said "black people shouldn't have rights", that guy would lose all social credibility and the people standing next to him would, expectedly, inch away

Even Trump knows this. Assume he is as racist as everyone here believes. He isn't coming right out and saying it, is he? Because he knows he can't. Because there is great, negative power in that kind of admission.
iamnotawerewolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:18 PM   #62285
otatop
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
otatop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,541
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics
otatop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:19 PM   #62286
chezlaw
Limey Bastard
 
chezlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Posts: 33,534
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
well that's just the thing - we don't know how prominent they are in germany right now

the AfD made a major surge this past election
You think censorship made a significant difference either way? The rise of the right in Europe is deeply depressing and scary but it seems more part of the times than anything to do with censorship.

It's also my view that limits on the rights to free speech cannot prevent political movements - that's a shame when it comes to the far right but it also means that the need for a right to free speech to protect against the state is overblown.
chezlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:20 PM   #62287
+rep_lol
El Guapo
 
+rep_lol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,484
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
no, the goalpost was originally "they admit they want to dehumanize blacks"

and offered was "puerto rico response was too little too late"

those are not the same targets

functionally, the point of the original was that, through discussion, if it would come out that a guy said "black people shouldn't have rights", that guy would lose all social credibility and the people standing next to him would, expectedly, inch away

Even Trump knows this. Assume he is as racist as everyone here believes. He isn't coming right out and saying it, is he? Because he knows he can't. Because there is great, negative power in that kind of admission.
lol @ "too little too late" when he publicly and repeatedly denigrated the mayor, the people, and threatened to cut off aid in juxtaposition to WE WILL BE WITH YOU 4EVA to florida and texas

lol you
+rep_lol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:22 PM   #62288
maulaga58
old hand
 
maulaga58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,750
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Rishard Matthews a WR with the Titans is prepared to retire if the NFL makes him stand for the National Anthem all he wants is an apology from Trump for the " sons of **tches " comment. which Trump should do but won't . He will be walking away from potentially 2 to 3 million this season alone. He's certainly putting his money where his mouth is. His brother was in the military and died on duty. His father served as well.
maulaga58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:25 PM   #62289
MrWookie
Don't Call Me Shirley
 
MrWookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Treating my drinking problem.
Posts: 86,205
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
This was Wookie's standard, not mine.

No, Trump and his deplorables have not admitted this. Trump doesn't give a **** about Puerto Rico, and not unlikely for racial reasons, but that's not an admission that "blacks should not be treated as people". I'm also pretty certain Trump has a lower standard for how people should be treated in general.


As for your intractability, Fly, I guess you are just as entrenched as Archie Bunker, but I don't like giving up on people.
Lol, the president admits he wants to treat some people as less than, and all those people are non-white, but because he hasn't openly stated that he wants to treat all blacks as less than, it's suddenly not OK to scrutinize this?
MrWookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:27 PM   #62290
TrollyWantACracker
veteran
 
TrollyWantACracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,562
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
No a month ago the AfD won 1/8 control of Germanys parliment. The AfD are literal neo-nazis.
Lol, 1/8th of Parliament. Welcome to the minor leagues, Germany.
TrollyWantACracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:28 PM   #62291
MicroPimpin
grinder
 
MicroPimpin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 537
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Trump doesn't really even dog whistle. I mean everyone hears it.
MicroPimpin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:35 PM   #62292
master3004
Revisionist Historian
 
master3004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Obstruct Everything
Posts: 48,838
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
A window in the weird private market fetishism that infects Republicans. The government created an industry backlash by providing hour by hour updates? Like the government can't even improve its services least it puts a dent in some CEO's wallet. The guy doesn't even have any scientific experience

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/1...y-myers-243735
Yeah, who needs government reports of possible hurricanes. I'm sure the people of Puerto Rico can afford 10 bucks a month for Accuweather prime.
master3004 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:37 PM   #62293
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 46,568
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

ianaw,

It is. Moving the argument away from really whether or not Trump and Trumkinism in regards to race and policy is at all acceptable to whether or not works like "subhuman" can be applied accurately is a distraction. The intellectually honest answer to "they admit they want to dehumanize blacks" is probably to just agree, but if you want to nit it up I guess you could say that "by 'blacks' I guess you just mean non-whites, and they just act like they think non-whites are less important than whites. They don't actually say they want to dehumanize blacks." But it would be pretty silly to go through all that if you generally agree, wouldn't it?
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:37 PM   #62294
master3004
Revisionist Historian
 
master3004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Obstruct Everything
Posts: 48,838
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroPimpin View Post
Trump doesn't really even dog whistle. I mean everyone hears it.
Trump uses a rape whistle to get his dog whistle points across.
master3004 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:39 PM   #62295
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 46,568
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
You think censorship made a significant difference either way? The rise of the right in Europe is deeply depressing and scary but it seems more part of the times than anything to do with censorship.

It's also my view that limits on the rights to free speech cannot prevent political movements - that's a shame when it comes to the far right but it also means that the need for a right to free speech to protect against the state is overblown.
The right to free speech is an end in and of itself. It's part of what it means to not be far right.


(American libertarians would add 'far left' as well. I don't agree. Not everything "communists" did was leftist. Authoritarianism is rightist even when practiced by the USSR.)
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:41 PM   #62296
Trolly McTrollson
Under your bridges
 
Trolly McTrollson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Winesburg, Ohio
Posts: 22,822
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

I know chez is untouchable on this forum, but can we at least think about booting the Nazi apologist back to POG? At least for a day or two?
Trolly McTrollson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:42 PM   #62297
Johnny Truant
Pooh-Bah
 
Johnny Truant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,821
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

when people itt want it beaten back into the shadows, what period are we taking about? Post civil rights movement? Pre trump? Pre breitbart?

I don't argue with the importance of the Overton window battle but the real damage is happening outside of public discourse in leaps and bounds. I mean, we are here, so whatever shadows it was hidden in didn't stop the progress. It certainly was not skinhead rallies that got us the AG, Miller, Clark, Trump, Bannon. These things did not happen because or despite kkk marches.

The real threat right now is not alt right torch rallies, it is that the people in power are working feverishly to figure out how to never relinquish it again. that will happen while we all argue about if we have to get mostly troll impact racists to say the n word on ananoymous boards rather than be allowed to cosplay in public. IMO, tthe most value these idiots add for the movement is they distract enemies from the real work that is progressing at a rate that has given them the White House.
Johnny Truant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:47 PM   #62298
ScreaminAsian
For President
 
ScreaminAsian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Taint Team
Posts: 25,838
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
I know chez is untouchable on this forum, but can we at least think about booting the Nazi apologist back to POG? At least for a day or two?
it’d be nice for this thread to be about the presidency of donald j trump again
ScreaminAsian is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:48 PM   #62299
Aksdal
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Aksdal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: mon Dieu!
Posts: 34,132
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
no, the goalpost was originally "they admit they want to dehumanize blacks"

and offered was "puerto rico response was too little too late"

those are not the same targets

functionally, the point of the original was that, through discussion, if it would come out that a guy said "black people shouldn't have rights", that guy would lose all social credibility and the people standing next to him would, expectedly, inch away

Even Trump knows this. Assume he is as racist as everyone here believes. He isn't coming right out and saying it, is he? Because he knows he can't. Because there is great, negative power in that kind of admission.
Sounds like you're saying you want to accelerate racism in people so you can make an argument later from a better position. Seems pretty silly. Consider that you're the one losing social credibility from the people who care about norms against to racism here itt for suggesting this.
Aksdal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 12:50 PM   #62300
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 46,568
re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Truant View Post
when people itt want it beaten back into the shadows, what period are we taking about? Post civil rights movement? Pre trump? Pre breitbart?

I don't argue with the importance of the Overton window battle but the real damage is happening outside of public discourse in leaps and bounds. I mean, we are here, so whatever shadows it was hidden in didn't stop the progress. It certainly was not skinhead rallies that got us the AG, Miller, Clark, Trump, Bannon. These things did not happen because or despite kkk marches.

The real threat right now is not alt right torch rallies, it is that the people in power are working feverishly to figure out how to never relinquish it again. that will happen while we all argue about if we have to get mostly troll impact racists to say the n word on ananoymous boards rather than be allowed to cosplay in public. IMO, tthe most value these idiots add for the movement is they distract enemies from the real work that is progressing at a rate that has given them the White House.
Well, it's a hard pill to swallow, but the fact is that you and I and all of us put together in this thread have very little power and measured on the scale of the entire society it's unlikely that anything we do will have any noticeable impact. "Act locally, think globally" is a pretty solid sentiment, especially if taken figuratively where 'locally' just means within the bounds of your influence and not literally local in a geographical sense.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online