Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilu7
You're wrong here Dvaut. Right now the #1 priority for people who want the best for the USA, and for the world at large, is for Trumpty Dumpty to have the largest resistance possible and for his power to be curtailed as much as possible (25-35% approval does this). Both of these things are achieved by hammering Russia home.
I mean, what did you learn wrt American public at large and how they respond to sensational stories that allege massive corruption/wrongdoing/lying? I mean, Hillary was the policy master, but lost because of BENGHAZI!!THO and EMAILS!!THO, both of which are complete jokes compared to this Dumpty/Russia bizness. On top of all the Reublicans who ate that **** up, we had/have plenty of Dems who didn't like her and held their nose voting for her (or just not ****in voting at all) because of those things. Given that Russia is 100x more legit, you don't want us to do to the same to Trump? With all due respect - GMAFB. Demmies been talking policy for decades and it hasnt done **** apparently. Now we have a meatball and we plan to blast this **** out of the park whether you like it or not.
1. Don't talk about policy. Talk about outcomes. See above. I never said talk about policy.
2. There's no actual 'plan' AFAIK, so the idea that it's teed up and ready to blast into the upper deck sounds suspect. Set a line on Trump being President on Jan 1 2019 if you think it's a sure bet this is ready for liftoff. I'll take action. If Democrats have a coherent plan I'd love to hear it.
3. RE: Benghazi emailz. Different messages for different audiences. It's not clear what the dispositive impacts of EMAILZ BENGHAZI since Trump merely turned out the GOP base at a rate they normally turn out at. It may very well have just been a lot of noise rather than truly motivating. The GOP's batting averages on pretend scandals permeating the wide electorate isn't actually that high. Mostly they're just talking amongst themselves in their epistemic closure loop. In any event, stuff like THE BENGHAZI is specifically crafted to appeal to paranoid angry mouthbreathers suspicious about the dark nexus between Clinton, Democrats, Arab rioters, terrorists and dead Americans so the story was pre-written by generations of myth-makers and story-tellers on the right who have been peddling these sort of theories forever.
Democrats can't just pick up the ball and run with "old white rich guy selling out America to the Soviets!" like they've been telling those stories for decades too. Voters have no pre-existing frames for this (e.g., voters inherently can't contextualize the wrong-doing and crimes versus their pre-existing perceptions of what motivates guys like Trump). Which is why the broad outlines of most of this was known prior to Nov. 2016 and Trump won anyway: because most voters don't get it, don't care, and you can't become America First Super Patriots Wholly Concerned with Ukrainian Sovereignty and the Sanctity of Elections Without Foreign Influence Peddling because it's too much virtue, too many impracticalities, too principled. Politics doesn't work like that.
Go do the simple heuristic and talk to 5 ~average informed voters about what the Trump Russia scandal actually *is.* What's the crime? What did he do wrong? What motivated him to do the wrong thing he did? See what kind of answers you get. Judge that against how much then you think Democrats have a coherent 'plan' and whether this is a sound political narrative.