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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

04-03-2017 , 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
Well looks like the "what wingnut position can we get HastenDan to sign onto" sweepstakes paid out "defending Assad online" lol
Me laughing at someone saying
Quote:

**** Tulsi Gabbard. Seriously.
when she has a lot of solid positions that would help out minorities and is an above average politician against the field of our current representatives doesn't = "defending Assad online". Sorry homophobe Better luck next time.
04-03-2017 , 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
Erik Prince, a crown prince from the UAE, and a Russian connected to Putin had a secret meeting in the Seychelles before the inauguration to discuss foreign policy

My view: there's no narrative here, can we please focus on something sexy like expanding Medicaid eligibility
04-03-2017 , 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
We need to confirm Gorsuch in light of this new development.
04-03-2017 , 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autocratic
Just to provide a lens through which to view Sushy saying "the chicks were hot," he once expressed that he feels Kellyanne Conway is hot.
Fair cop.

I think it was the night of the inauguration ball when she had that sexy outfit on and she punched some guy. I found that quite attractive for some reason.

I think I may have been drunk at the time though.
04-03-2017 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
The other great thing about the Russia story is that it can get Trump impeached. Obviously the GOP will never impeach Trump for not being left-wing enough, but they very well might impeach him for being very unpopular and also having compromising ties to Russia.
Trump presents something of a historic opportunity for the left though. Obviously he is an unhinged maniac who sits atop a giant pile of nukes and an enormous economy. So having him in power is a tremendous risk. Impeachment is a great outcome.

But if we can fade total nuclear destruction and other disasters, he represents an almost a cartoon villain archetype of Republicanism - a mega wealthy immoral white guy fixated on personal enrichment and transparently lying through his teeth to the idiot armies of old whites about his intent or interest to solve their cultural and social grievances.

You can sort of envision the rest of his term as an expanded version of the AHCA debacle - an inept clownshow where Paul Ryan tries to sell oligarchy to the masses and Trump tweets from the bunker about wiretapping and voter fraud and other nonsense.

Assuming impeachment doesn't succeed, Trump flailing for 4 years isn't a really bad outcome. As I have been a broken record about - Democrats can't really build much on the narrative about a neutered Trump who got foiled by Russia. It's limited (which is of course why you favor it). OTOH Trump becoming a once-in-a-generation unpopular scion of Republicanism could pay dividends for a generation. I suspect you fear that too, which is why Russia feels urgent and critical for the Never Trump fifth column old school Republicans. You sort of get how he can be a millstone to the party for like twice as long as the GWB administration.

So if we can avoid simply not getting exploded, this is a unique opportunity to really change the political culture for the left by simply kicking their feet up and letting Trump be an obvious feckless moron.

Last edited by DVaut1; 04-03-2017 at 09:09 PM.
04-03-2017 , 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Fair cop.

I think it was the night of the inauguration ball when she had that sexy outfit on and she punched some guy. I found that quite attractive for some reason.

I think I may have been drunk at the time though.
She looked like daffy duck stole Apollo creeds look.
04-03-2017 , 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autocratic
I can't judge. My father served in many death squads. "Why don't you just keep a picture of him on your desk?" my friends always ask. "Why do you have to pledge undying allegiance to the death squads?" It's like they just don't understand what having a dad is all about.
tyrannosaurus rekt
04-03-2017 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
Here's the thing. I have racist, Trump-loving, gay-hating, good old Republican relatives from Ohio. And they have no problem agreeing that Canada's health care system works and is good.

They just also firmly believe it can't work in the US. And they'll give a few nonsense reasons, but it usually comes down to their belief that the minorities will take advantage of it and the good old white people can't afford to fund a system that the lazy minorities are going to leech off of.

Racism. It's ****ed up.
04-03-2017 , 09:23 PM


https://twitter.com/AliWatkins/statu...29087872126976
04-03-2017 , 09:25 PM
carter page admits to having been contacted by a russian spy.

NOTHING TO SEE HERE

damn pony slow

my favorite line in that article was the yeah we're gonna talk to him (page) eventually but there's so many other more important people.
04-03-2017 , 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicitus
Yup. I don't really get this line of argument that "Look people, it's only a second rate burglary, not going to take down the president." Bad spy fiction is far more compelling than good healthcare coverage.
Well, 1. it's not obvious that there's a smoking gun there. Sure, it's a good shot to take, but realistically,we may just spend months investigating and only get enough dirt to take down Flynn or some other fall guy. We kind of luckboxed it with Nixon in that he was dumb enough to record himself telling people to do illegal ****. If there really is a magic piss tape out there, than okay the pot odds say we should try to find it, but let's make plans if it isn't there.

2. I don't get this argument that no1curr about unsexy healthcare coverage. Obama crushed it twice by pushing hard on healthcare reform! We just saw a huge push by the base to shoot the Republican counter-proposal, which is wildly unpopular. This is something that hits home and mobilizes the base.
04-03-2017 , 09:40 PM
1. I'm all for some 2020 Dems running hard on a public option. Someone should draft a REAL bill that does that (keep it locked in a drawer but have it ready, not like Trump care).

I personally think there's at least some there there on Russia, issue is whether it's a 3 or an 8. Even if it's a 3, Benghazi was probably better for GOP than Hillary, and that was a 2 on its best day.
04-03-2017 , 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Trump presents something of a historic opportunity for the left though. Obviously he is an unhinged maniac who sits atop a giant pile of nukes and an enormous economy. So having him in power is a tremendous risk. Impeachment is a great outcome.

But if we can fade total nuclear destruction and other disasters, he represents an almost a cartoon villain archetype of Republicanism - a mega wealthy immoral white guy fixated on personal enrichment and transparently lying through his teeth to the idiot armies of old whites about his intent or interest to solve their cultural and social grievances.

You can sort of envision the rest of his term as an expanded version of the AHCA debacle - an inept clownshow where Paul Ryan tries to sell oligarchy to the masses and Trump tweets from the bunker about wiretapping and voter fraud and other nonsense.

Assuming impeachment doesn't succeed, Trump flailing for 4 years isn't a really bad outcome. As I have been a broken record about - Democrats can't really build much on the narrative about a neutered Trump who got foiled by Russia. It's limited (which is of course why you favor it). OTOH Trump becoming a once-in-a-generation unpopular scion of Republicanism could pay dividends for a generation. I suspect you fear that too, which is why Russia feels urgent and critical for the Never Trump fifth column old school Republicans. You sort of get how he can be a millstone to the party for like twice as long as the GWB administration.

So if we can avoid simply not getting exploded, this is a unique opportunity to really change the political culture for the left by simply kicking their feet up and letting Trump be an obvious feckless moron.
I don't understand how I'm being painted as the cynical one in a post where you're saying that running an increased risk of a nuclear war or a similar disaster isn't that bad if it gives us a shot of establishing durable leftist politics. I just want gradual and responsible change and for everyone I know and love not to die of blast effects or radiation poisoning!
04-03-2017 , 10:03 PM
re centrism:

Everyone being a centrist probably isn't stable. Half the people being centrists and half being rwnjs certainly isn't stable. Reagan's presidency, Newt Gingrich's congress, Rush Limbaugh's media and Charles Koch's lobby have pushed the Rs not towards any particular policy objective, just always right. Put that together with no opposition but a party of compromise and you get to the point where the 2016 election might as well have been GHWBush for the Dems and Pat Buchanan or Lydon Larouche for the Rs. The GOP got really used to saying "Liberals make me sick" and the Dems responding "hey, we're not really that liberal!"

You want the Dems to be centrists? That might work out ok if the Republicans agree to go away.
04-03-2017 , 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicitus
1. I'm all for some 2020 Dems running hard on a public option. Someone should draft a REAL bill that does that (keep it locked in a drawer but have it ready, not like Trump care).

I personally think there's at least some there there on Russia, issue is whether it's a 3 or an 8. Even if it's a 3, Benghazi was probably better for GOP than Hillary, and that was a 2 on its best day.
Sick detective work. Respect.
04-03-2017 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Well, if you're a modern Democrat, I guess you assume you're doing both at the same time but therein lies the problem.
Thoughts on the following:



https://twitter.com/LanaDelRaytheon/...55420168994817
04-03-2017 , 10:12 PM
Something no one is really talking about but here goes... What exactly has been achieved (meaning not pointless EOs) so far? Seems like both Trump & Congress work at a snail's pace especially given the rhetoric during the campaign. Gorsuch will be their first real "victory" and they had to use the nuclear option to achieve it. What else has been passed and signed into law? Amazing how unprepared (even for Trump/GOP congress & with 3 months in between election/Inauguration) their team has been.
04-03-2017 , 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
We can also frame this as a global competition narrative. The truth is that coal mining + manufacturing is simply not coming back. To be competitive going forward, America needs to invest in clean energy, advanced technology, and advanced education for its citizens.


https://twitter.com/SenSanders/statu...26731633770496
The US has a huge advantage....if we want to increase it we should create alot of federally funded postdoc/assistant professor positions.
04-03-2017 , 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Trump presents something of a historic opportunity for the left though. Obviously he is an unhinged maniac who sits atop a giant pile of nukes and an enormous economy. So having him in power is a tremendous risk. Impeachment is a great outcome.

But if we can fade total nuclear destruction and other disasters, he represents an almost a cartoon villain archetype of Republicanism - a mega wealthy immoral white guy fixated on personal enrichment and transparently lying through his teeth to the idiot armies of old whites about his intent or interest to solve their cultural and social grievances.

You can sort of envision the rest of his term as an expanded version of the AHCA debacle - an inept clownshow where Paul Ryan tries to sell oligarchy to the masses and Trump tweets from the bunker about wiretapping and voter fraud and other nonsense.

Assuming impeachment doesn't succeed, Trump flailing for 4 years isn't a really bad outcome. As I have been a broken record about - Democrats can't really build much on the narrative about a neutered Trump who got foiled by Russia. It's limited (which is of course why you favor it). OTOH Trump becoming a once-in-a-generation unpopular scion of Republicanism could pay dividends for a generation. I suspect you fear that too, which is why Russia feels urgent and critical for the Never Trump fifth column old school Republicans. You sort of get how he can be a millstone to the party for like twice as long as the GWB administration.

So if we can avoid simply not getting exploded, this is a unique opportunity to really change the political culture for the left by simply kicking their feet up and letting Trump be an obvious feckless moron.
One other potential benefit that focusing more on the domestic effects of Republican incompetence/malevolence, i.e. Their active sabotaging or otherwise neutering of any and every policy that benefits anyone besides the ownership class, than the finer details of Trump's possible Russian dealings is that the former may be more helpful in the midterm elections than the latter.
04-03-2017 , 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP17
Something no one is really talking about but here goes... What exactly has been achieved (meaning not pointless EOs) so far? Seems like both Trump & Congress work at a snail's pace especially given the rhetoric during the campaign. Gorsuch will be their first real "victory" and they had to use the nuclear option to achieve it. What else has been passed and signed into law? Amazing how unprepared (even for Trump/GOP congress & with 3 months in between election/Inauguration) their team has been.
Pointless EO's? Are you kidding me? Unreal.

For things signed into law that aren't EO's since in your world apparently that's the only thing that counts--he's gonna sign the internet companies sell your data for profit one. If there's another I actually forgot since who remembers last week am I right?

Also the normalization of a lot of corruption. wheeeee.
04-03-2017 , 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Trump presents something of a historic opportunity for the left though. Obviously he is an unhinged maniac who sits atop a giant pile of nukes and an enormous economy. So having him in power is a tremendous risk. Impeachment is a great outcome.

But if we can fade total nuclear destruction and other disasters, he represents an almost a cartoon villain archetype of Republicanism - a mega wealthy immoral white guy fixated on personal enrichment and transparently lying through his teeth to the idiot armies of old whites about his intent or interest to solve their cultural and social grievances.

You can sort of envision the rest of his term as an expanded version of the AHCA debacle - an inept clownshow where Paul Ryan tries to sell oligarchy to the masses and Trump tweets from the bunker about wiretapping and voter fraud and other nonsense.

Assuming impeachment doesn't succeed, Trump flailing for 4 years isn't a really bad outcome. As I have been a broken record about - Democrats can't really build much on the narrative about a neutered Trump who got foiled by Russia. It's limited (which is of course why you favor it). OTOH Trump becoming a once-in-a-generation unpopular scion of Republicanism could pay dividends for a generation. I suspect you fear that too, which is why Russia feels urgent and critical for the Never Trump fifth column old school Republicans. You sort of get how he can be a millstone to the party for like twice as long as the GWB administration.

So if we can avoid simply not getting exploded, this is a unique opportunity to really change the political culture for the left by simply kicking their feet up and letting Trump be an obvious feckless moron.
Domestically, I would agree. Yeah, fading straight up authoritarianism and nuclear war comes out like as like the best possible outcome under POTUS trump.

But I think long term we'd be way better off with a competent Pence who has the ability to push backwards domestic policies through but keeps us from being a joke on the world stage. USA is about to get ****ed hard in that arena. And that is going to be way harder to come back from.

Like, we can't just get to 2020, elect a sane democrat, and go "Hey world, just kidding about the last 4 years, let's pretend its 2016 and other countries respect us again."
04-03-2017 , 10:53 PM
What's up with Fox News penis boys tryna touch all the pussies? Calm down bros.
04-03-2017 , 11:16 PM
04-03-2017 , 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicitus
1. I'm all for some 2020 Dems running hard on a public option. Someone should draft a REAL bill that does that (keep it locked in a drawer but have it ready, not like Trump care).

I personally think there's at least some there there on Russia, issue is whether it's a 3 or an 8. Even if it's a 3, Benghazi was probably better for GOP than Hillary, and that was a 2 on its best day.
Unlike the GOP they should actually draft some workable legislation now so that it's ready when they get back in power. But I think that if they did propose a public option they would get 0 GOP support and enough Dems in red states would bail to make it unworkable.

But they do need to find some kind of strategy to help get themselves back in power. Hopefully, unlike "repeal Obamacare!", the strategy they use turns into workable legislation at some point.
04-03-2017 , 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
Unlike the GOP they should actually draft some workable legislation now so that it's ready when they get back in power. But I think that if they did propose a public option they would get 0 GOP support and enough Dems in red states would bail to make it unworkable.

But they do need to find some kind of strategy to help get themselves back in power. Hopefully, unlike "repeal Obamacare!", the strategy they use turns into workable legislation at some point.
The problem with actual legislation, as opposed to slogans, is that it has winners and losers, and even if good there always a BS basis like "death panels" to rally around. (This was less of a problem back before FOX news and the permanent right-wing professional/media/pseudo-academic class evolved.) That why I said lock the bill in a drawer. A better option may be to have the drafting led by Brookings/CAP which would almost ensure it will never be seen.

The other option would be to have a great candidate coming off the Trump disaster and just own it (i.e., public option). That could be a tough draw, but Trump could well make it happen.

Last edited by simplicitus; 04-04-2017 at 12:01 AM.

      
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