The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. - Page 892 - Politics and Economics

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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

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03-27-2017 , 10:31 PM

#22276

einbert

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

He can't make the Dems do anything. He is so unpopular right now it's basically toxic for Dems to work with him on anything.

03-27-2017 , 10:34 PM

#22277

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

He can't make the Dems do anything. He is so unpopular right now it's basically toxic for Dems to work with him on anything.

So Dems are just gonna let Obamacare explode?

03-27-2017 , 10:34 PM

#22278

RV Life

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 1,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by raheem

He's making the Dems come to him and do a new bill together.

He rules with fear, but it's possible he still has good intentions.

Back on the Trumpwagon I see.

03-27-2017 , 10:35 PM

#22279

RV Life

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 1,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by raheem

So Dems are just gonna let Obamacare explode?

What? No.

The GOP controls EVERYTHING now. Dems have nothing to do with it.

Stop watching FOX for chrissakes.

03-27-2017 , 10:35 PM

#22280

fatkid

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 8,860

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatkid

Kushner is involved in this Russian ****. I can feel it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onlydo2days

Nah, Kushner is way too smart to get jammed up like that. Operation wouldn't be so sloppy if it was him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatkid

Haha no, they are all idiots. They all took the sanction bait like sucker fishes.

Penis

03-27-2017 , 10:36 PM

#22281

einbert

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Quote:

Originally Posted by raheem

So Dems are just gonna let Obamacare explode?

The CBO says ObamaCare is not actually going to explode. Trump and Tom Price will try to sabotage it, I'm sure. But there's no guarantee that they'll be successful.

And here's the thing. If Trump can actually come up with some good legislation that helps shore up ObamaCare, Dems probably would support him. But I just don't see that happening. Anything like TrumpCare will be rejected outright because it just doesn't fit with Democrat's vision that affordable health care should be available to everyone.

03-27-2017 , 10:36 PM

#22282

OmgGlutten!

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 5,273

Quote:

So Dems are just gonna let Obamacare explode?

can we ban raheem please?

03-27-2017 , 10:37 PM

#22283

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV Life

Back on the Trumpwagon I see.

To be honest I kinda am. My mind is ever-changing. Until Trump starts killing people, I think he's good for humanity.

03-27-2017 , 10:37 PM

#22284

einbert

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Here's a good article on the actual weaknesses of ObamaCare. Fixing these weaknesses would be great, if Trump is actually interested in doing that:

http://wunc.org/post/fact-check-trum...s-not#stream/0

Quote:

What's working

1) The exchanges are stable ...

Supporters of the current health law received something of a boost last week with the Congressional Budget Office's initial assessment of the Republicans' bill. If the Affordable Care Act were kept in place, the CBO wrote, the exchanges wouldn't explode at all.

"The nongroup market would probably be stable in most areas under either current law or the [Republican] legislation," the nonpartisan office wrote.

The CBO cites two reasons:

First, it said the law requiring people to buy insurance or pay a penalty works to bring people into the market, further stabilizing the customer base.

Second, and more importantly, a strong majority of people who buy insurance through the marketplaces get financial help from the government to pay their premiums, and those subsidies rise when premiums rise. So those people are likely to continue buying insurance through the marketplaces.

2) ... In part because many people are shielded from premium hikes.

Indeed, premiums have climbed substantially in some states' exchanges, but PolitiFact found this week that "most people purchasing health care through the marketplace didn't feel it." (The fact-check organization was vetting former President Obama's claim that most exchange enrollees "have experienced no average premium hike at all.")

A study by the Kaiser Family Foundation shows that a 40-year-old who makes $30,000 could have paid the same $208 a month for an average marketplace health insurance policy in both 2016 and 2017, as long as they were willing to shop for the best price.

3) The uninsured rate has fallen — a lot.

Probably the biggest positive supporters of the Affordable Care Act point to is the fast-falling rate of people who don't have health insurance. Before the ACA, more than 16 percent of the population was uninsured. Then in 2013, the first year that the Obamacare marketplaces went live, the uninsured rate fell to 13.3 percent, and then to 10.5 percent in 2015, and to 8.9 percent in the first half of 2016, the lowest ever.

Much of that decline is because many low-income people became eligible for Medicaid under the Obamacare expansion of that program. The rest are people who bought insurance through those exchanges.

That has had knock-on effects throughout the health care industry. Most notably, hospitals are losing less money, because they don't have to treat as many people in emergency rooms who don't pay their bills. The American Hospital Association says that uncompensated care dropped from 6.1 percent of their expenses in 2012 to 4.2 percent in 2015.

4) Premiums are holding steady (but don't praise Obamacare for that)

One more point that's not exactly great, but is an improvement: Premiums continue to grow for enrollees in employer-provided plans, but that growth is slower than it was in the years prior to the Affordable Care Act's passage.

However, the law doesn't appear to have played a big part in slowing that growth.

The Kaiser Family Foundation's Gary Claxton told FactCheck.org recently that it's difficult to figure out exactly how much Obamacare affected employer premiums — there are "so many moving parts," he said — but he doesn't believe there's much of an effect.

"There was nothing fundamentally large about the ACA overall which had a noticeable effect" on those premiums, he said. Fredric Blavin, a senior research associate at the Urban Institute, likewise told FactCheck that any effects on premiums were likely small.

That works against both the Obama administration, which implied that it was slowing down premium growth, and the Trump administration, which has blamed the Obama administration for premium growth.

For example, the Kaiser Family Foundation found in 2013 that a slowing economy probably had something to do with the slowing growth, as FactCheck.org noted. Not only that, but deductibles have grown quickly in recent years, helping to keep premiums down. Ultimately, Obama's health law doesn't seem to have held premiums down all that much — but it also hasn't caused them to explode.
What's not working

1) Few insurance options for many Americans.

The Affordable Care Act does have its weaknesses. As more companies have pulled out of the exchanges, Americans are left with fewer choices in their coverage. In many parts of the country, as Trump and his fellow Republicans often point out, enrollees in the insurance exchanges have only one choice of insurer.

An analysis by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that five states — Alabama, Alaska, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Wyoming — have only one insurance company selling policies on the Obamacare exchanges.

And the share of the population that has three or more companies to choose from fell from 85 percent in 2016 to 57 percent this year.

The uncertainty over the future of the Affordable Care Act exchanges has likely made this situation worse. Insurers have to decide in the next few weeks whether to offer policies on the federal and state exchanges for 2018. Humana has already announced it intends to leave the exchanges altogether.

2) Big premium hikes for some Americans.

And while it's true that many Americans in the exchanges — 64 percent, according to PolitiFact — haven't seen their out-of-pocket spending on premiums rise, around one-third did. Those premium hikes were steep in some states, such as Arizona, which saw its average premiums more than double. And for those who were shielded from rising premiums by subsidies, the government picked up that much more of the bill.

3) Higher deductibles making health care more expensive for many.

And premiums aren't the extent of health care spending. For most people, out-of-pocket costs such as deductibles and co-payments have also risen. The average deductible for workers getting individual insurance through their employers was $1,478 last year. That's up by 49 percent over five years. That helps counterbalance the slower growth in premiums.

4) (Very) (very) expensive health care

One more sign of problems with U.S. health care today: The U.S. spends much more on health care than other countries do — more than $9,400 per capita per year, as of 2016, compared to around $3,800 for other developed countries.

That's not caused by the Affordable Care Act — this was a problem before the bill was passed — but it's a sign that there's still a lot that could be done to improve the U.S. health care system.

03-27-2017 , 10:38 PM

#22285

OmgGlutten!

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 5,273

So how is the Trump budget going to work? Haven't the R's been talking balanced budget and deficit reduction like it was the end of the world for the last 8 years?

Gasp, are deficits going to rise under Trump, unlike the way they went down under Reagan/Bush/Bush?

03-27-2017 , 10:38 PM

#22286

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

Premiums are going through the roof. Deductibles are rising too. Soon many Trump supporters have to drop out of Obamacare. All I'm saying it's a complex situation.

03-27-2017 , 10:39 PM

#22287

Loki

binary duo

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 12,772

Quote:

Originally Posted by raheem

To be honest I kinda am. My mind is ever-changing. Until Trump starts killing people, I think he's good for humanity.

So the 200 dead civilians in the Middle East is no big deal?

03-27-2017 , 10:40 PM

#22288

RV Life

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 1,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by raheem

To be honest I kinda am. My mind is ever-changing. Until Trump starts killing people, I think he's good for humanity.

Killing people? You mean like American citizens in Yemen or bombing civilians in Mosul?

Dude, you ain't fooling anyone.

03-27-2017 , 10:40 PM

#22289

OmgGlutten!

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 5,273

Quote:

One more sign of problems with U.S. health care today: The U.S. spends much more on health care than other countries do — more than $9,400 per capita per year, as of 2016, compared to around $3,800 for other developed countries.

Maybe we could ask them for advice or contrast what we have vs what they have? What is the big difference us vs them?

03-27-2017 , 10:41 PM

#22290

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 100,229

03-27-2017 , 10:41 PM

#22291

einbert

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmgGlutten!

Maybe we could ask them for advice or contrast what we have vs what they have? What is the big difference us vs them?

In short, government provided insurance is more efficient than private markets. This is just very difficult for Americans to believe or understand because our political rhetoric is totally contrary to this, but it's true. Even in the U.S., the Medicaid and Medicare systems have the most efficient costs overall.

03-27-2017 , 10:42 PM

#22292

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib

So the 200 dead civilians in the Middle East is no big deal?

Good point. Obama killed civilians too, but maybe that's not a fair comparison.

03-27-2017 , 10:45 PM

#22293

einbert

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV Life

What? No.

The GOP controls EVERYTHING now. Dems have nothing to do with it.

Stop watching FOX for chrissakes.

Right. If Trump breaks the health care system, it's not like he can run against Obama in 2020. Voters don't understand much but they do understand when one party holds the Presidency and both houses of Congress, if they break it, they bought it.

03-27-2017 , 10:48 PM

#22294

RV Life

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 1,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by raheem

Good point. Obama killed civilians too, but maybe that's not a fair comparison.

Obama is president? Funny, I thought Trump was.

Oh you mean whataboutism. It's irrelevant.

03-27-2017 , 10:49 PM

#22295

ScreaminAsian

For President

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 33,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by raheem

To be honest I kinda am. My mind is ever-changing. Until Trump starts killing people, I think he's good for humanity.

if you believed this you wouldn't THINK to support the guy who campaigned on "carpet-bombing isis"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/w...rstrikes.html?

Quote:

At least 1,353 civilians have been killed by American-led coalition airstrikes in Iraq

03-27-2017 , 10:49 PM

#22296

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,466

Quote:

Originally Posted by raheem

To be honest I kinda am. My mind is ever-changing. Until Trump starts killing people, I think he's good for humanity.

Bahahahaha

03-27-2017 , 10:51 PM

#22297

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian

if you believed this you wouldn't THINK to support the guy who campaigned on "carpet-bombing isis"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/w...rstrikes.html?

CRUZ WANTED TO CARPET-BOMB ISIS, NOT TRUMP!!!

03-27-2017 , 10:51 PM

#22298

sylar

Ivan Drago's homeslice

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,307

Quote:

Originally Posted by raheem

To be honest I kinda am. My mind is ever-changing. Until Trump starts killing people, I think he's good for humanity.

Wow at how low your bar is for humanity.

03-27-2017 , 10:54 PM

#22299

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

If people survive and are happy, I think that's a good thing. Let's just see how everything plays out and in a year we have a good idea who was right and who wasn't.