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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

03-26-2017 , 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
Lol he shortened Obamacare to Ocare instead of calling it ACA. Pretty sure trump still doesn't know what the ACA is.
Nice catch.
03-26-2017 , 09:59 AM
60 Votes for Gorsuch:

52 GOP
+
Heitkamp - ND
McCaskill - MO
Manchin - WV
Donnelly - IN
Tester - MT
+
Feinstein - CA (retiring, on judiciary committee)
+
Nelson - FL (election in 2018)
+
King - ME (independent, maverick)

There's 60 right there. There's even more that could push him over per Politico.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-senate-234521

And here's the thing. You'll have some vote for cloture and then vote against for the actual vote. I bet he wins cloture 61-39 and wins the actual vote 55-45 or something like that.
03-26-2017 , 10:03 AM
If people ITT want to get money out of politics and prevent future decisions like Citizens United (which are obviously not good for democracy or the public, but great for lobbyists and big corporations who want to control the system) they should support Gorsuch. But if you want a better democratic system, that actually works for everybody, you should support a filibuster. Gorsuch is no good for the long-term health of democracy in the U.S.
03-26-2017 , 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999
60 Votes for Gorsuch:

52 GOP
+
Heitkamp - ND
McCaskill - MO
Manchin - WV
Donnelly - IN
Tester - MT
+
Feinstein - CA (retiring, on judiciary committee)
+
Nelson - FL (election in 2018)
+
King - ME (independent, maverick)

There's 60 right there. There's even more that could push him over per Politico.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-senate-234521

And here's the thing. You'll have some vote for cloture and then vote against for the actual vote. I bet he wins cloture 61-39 and wins the actual vote 55-45 or something like that.
Deplorables like you have fundamentally torn the fabric of Americas democracy to install your preferred deplorable to the bench. You've spent more than $20M to do so, forever politicizing a once bipartisan body. SCOTUS will soon be no more impartial than congress. Who needed that check and balance anyway.

You should be so proud.

You are all repulsive.

I might never have a bigger smile than the day I read whatever moronic thing your disgusting leader does that screws you directly. It might actually convince me that karma is real.
03-26-2017 , 10:04 AM
10 Ways Citizens United Endangers Democracy
http://www.demos.org/publication/10-...gers-democracy
Quote:
Two years ago the Supreme Court got it supremely wrong when it held that corporations had the same rights as people to spend money in elections. Campaign finance laws protect our democracy from corruption and preserve the integrity of our elections. These rules governing the use of money in politics were in a sorry state before Citizens United v. FEC. Here are ten ways in which the Citizens United decision has made a bad situation much worse.
1. “Independent” Spending Farce Leads To SuperPACs

The Supreme Court thought non-candidate spending would be “independent” and therefore non-corrupting. This proposition not only beggars belief, it led to the rise of SuperPACs, which are allowed to raise and spend unlimited amounts because they don’t contribute directly to candidates and are purportedly independent. These Super PACs, more than 250 of which registered between their creation in 2010 and the end of 2011, have super-charged the influence of the biggest corporations and wealthiest individuals. The Supreme Court still recognizes that contributions to candidates can be corrupting, which is why direct contributions can be limited; if outside groups coordinate spending with a candidate it is treated like a direct contribution and can also be limited. Rules exist to prevent coordination between candidates and outside groups. But these rules have been reduced to such swiss cheese that they barely maintain the pretense of independence. That is how we’ve ended up with candidate SuperPACs - founded by former campaign associates, funded by family and friends, explicitly supporting one candidate, who is allowed to fundraise for these groups himself. These candidate SuperPACs are making a mockery of contribution limits by running figure eights around and through the coordination rules; the idea that they are independent in any real sense is absurd.
2. Legal Money Laundering Increases Secret Spending

Justice Kennedy wrongly assumed that disclosure rules would reveal who was spending money to influence elections and enable voters “to make informed decisions and give proper weight to different speakers and messages.” While certain groups are required to reveal their financial backers, the Federal Election Commission’s rules fail to enforce many disclosure laws. Underlying donors to groups running political ads remain hidden through technicalities. Even when a particular group discloses its funders, the identity of the real source of the funds can be shielded. With more and more money flooding the system the need for real transparency that gets to the true source of funds has never been greater. Groups that didn’t disclose their donors report spending over $130 million in 2010, and spending through new and less accountable channels continues to rise. In the 2010 election, outside groups spent over $280 million to influence federal elections, according to the Campaign Finance Institute. This was more than double the nearly $120 million spent by outside groups on Congressional elections in 2008, and more than five times the almost $54 million spent by outside groups in 2006. Voters deserve information, and are in danger of being misled without it. For example, a campaign about a change to zoning policy favorable to Wal-Mart was run by a group calling itself “Littleton Neighbors Voting No”. There, state disclosure laws revealed that the group was funded by Wal-Mart, and not a group of concerned citizens as the name suggests. At the federal level we are not so lucky. Tax-exempt groups like 501(c)(4)s, with names like Freedom Loving Americans for Freedom, can accept unlimited money from any source without revealing the names of their donors. These groups can give that money to a PAC and, though the PAC has to disclose its donors, the source of the funds is recorded as the tax-exempt group with the inoffensive name, not the name of the real source of the money. “What’s the difference between that and money laundering?” asks leading campaign finance satirist Stephen Colbert. He reminds us that “Citizens United said that transparency would be the disinfectant, but (c)(4)’s are warm, wet, moist incubators. There is no disinfectant.”
3. Corporate Money Distorts Democracy

The Court turned its back on the reality recognized by political actors for a century: concentrated wealth has a distorting effect on democracy, therefore, winners in the economic marketplace should not be allowed to dominate the political marketplace. Before Citizens United, the Supreme Court recognized in Austin v Michigan Chamber of Commerce that the government had a compelling interest in protecting our democracy from “the corrosive and distorting effects of immense aggregations of wealth that are accumulated with the help of the corporate form and that have little or no correlation to the public’s support for the corporation’s political ideas.” The Court that decided Austin was rightly worried that corporate wealth can dominate the political process and “unfairly influence elections.” Citizens United disavowed this understanding. The public supports the prior consensus of the Court. Shortly after the Citizens United decision, 78% of poll respondents agreed that the amount that corporations are allowed to spend in order to influence campaigns should be limited, and 70% believed that corporations have too much control over elections already. It’s hard to escape the conclusion that Government of and by big money supporters can only be for big money supporters.
4. Court is Blind to Reality of Corruption

Citizens United concluded, without evidence, that independent spending doesn’t corrupt, ignoring that ingratiation, loyalty, access, and influence are the coin of the realm in politics. Justice Kennedy blinked when he wrote that "[t]he fact that speakers may have influence over or access to elected officials does not mean that these officials are corrupt. ... Ingratiation and access, in any event, are not corruption." Citizens United overruled recent precedent, McConnell v. FEC, which had upheld the very same corporate spending restrictions. The McConnell Court had found that corruption of government is "not confined to bribery of public officials, but extend[s] to the broader threat from politicians too compliant with the wishes of large contributors." The possibility that legislators will "decide issues not on the merits or the desires of their constituencies, but according to the wishes of those who have made large financial contributions valued by the officeholder" is a more subtle form of corruption than straight quid pro quo transactions, but is "equally dispiriting." Indeed, Justice Kennedy’s own opinion in a prior case, Caperton v. Massey Coal, recognized that an elected official could be, and would certainly appear, indebted to the largest financial supporter of his election. Massey Coal had a $50 million adverse judgment on appeal to the West Virginia Supreme Court, so the CEO invested $3 million dollars to impact the judicial election. Lo and behold, his Supreme Court candidate won, and voted to spare Massey the fine. In that case, Justice Kennedy recognized that the disproportionate independent spending to elect the judge made the judge appear biased. Just as litigants have the right to impartial justice, citizens should have a right to a representative who will fairly weigh the interests of all constituents, not merely moneyed supporters. Showing a serious tin ear to our times, the Court also decided that “[t]he appearance of influence or access, furthermore, will not cause the electorate to lose faith in our democracy.” Eighty-seven percent of Americans polled soon after Citizens United believed that members of Congress are influenced more by donors than by constituents’ views. [more polls] Voters say "we don't have a representative government anymore" and believe that "the nexus of money and power, greased by special interest lobbyists and large campaign donations" means that "the game is rigged" and "the wealthy and big industries get policies that reinforce their advantage." Citizens United’s constricted understanding of true corruption of a representative democracy has potentially disastrous consequences for the core principal of self-government on which our democracy rests.

[...]
03-26-2017 , 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
Deplorables like you have fundamentally torn the fabric of Americas democracy to instal your preferred deplorable to the bench. You've spent more than $20M to do so, forever politicizing a once bipartisan body. SCOTUS will soon be no more impartial than congress. Who needed that check and balance anyway.

You should be so proud.

You are all repulsive.
SCOTUS is totally ****ed, and now the formerly bipartisan Intelligence Committees are all but useless as well. McConnell and Trump have laid waste to our institutions at an astounding rate, and yet people still support them blindly in the name of "winning."
03-26-2017 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999
60 Votes for Gorsuch:

52 GOP
+
Heitkamp - ND
McCaskill - MO
Manchin - WV
Donnelly - IN
Tester - MT
+
Feinstein - CA (retiring, on judiciary committee)
+
Nelson - FL (election in 2018)
+
King - ME (independent, maverick)

There's 60 right there. There's even more that could push him over per Politico.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-senate-234521

And here's the thing. You'll have some vote for cloture and then vote against for the actual vote. I bet he wins cloture 61-39 and wins the actual vote 55-45 or something like that.
Feinstein aint voting for Gorsech, others probably aren't either.
03-26-2017 , 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999
60 Votes for Gorsuch:

52 GOP
+
Heitkamp - ND
McCaskill - MO
Manchin - WV
Donnelly - IN
Tester - MT
+
Feinstein - CA (retiring, on judiciary committee)
+
Nelson - FL (election in 2018)
+
King - ME (independent, maverick)

There's 60 right there. There's even more that could push him over per Politico.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-senate-234521

And here's the thing. You'll have some vote for cloture and then vote against for the actual vote. I bet he wins cloture 61-39 and wins the actual vote 55-45 or something like that.
It's better if they get 60 than them getting 55 and them having to go nuclear.

Chuck Schumer talked Obama into him not going nuclear on SC.
03-26-2017 , 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicitus
Feinstein aint voting for Gorsech, others probably aren't either.
I bet Manchin and Heitkamp will.

Feinstein probably won't, but it wouldn't surprise me *that* much.
03-26-2017 , 10:19 AM
Authoritarians often bypass normal institutional media outlets (CNN for example) in order to deliver their messages (and especially go after their targets) via state-sponsored media.

The other day this article ran on Breitbart:

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/sta...15256125734913

Breitbart, still run by the White House's Steve Bannon, started pushing this message earlier in the week. Then after the bill actually failed, Trump used Judge Jeanine Pirro through Fox News to go after Speaker Ryan. The message was clear: Paul Ryan should step down as speaker, this is his failure, not Trump's.



03-26-2017 , 10:20 AM
Bill Nelson will get literally 0 additional votes in 2018 for a yes vote on Gorsuck.
03-26-2017 , 10:23 AM
Does anyone think Pence could be worse than Trump? Gay rights as an example.
03-26-2017 , 10:23 AM
Manu on CNN just reported that Gorsech doesn't have 60 votes.
03-26-2017 , 10:24 AM
I'm sure the Hillary's emails crowd will be very concerned about this.


https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...62034818043904
03-26-2017 , 10:25 AM
People who voted for Trump really ****ed over America.
03-26-2017 , 10:25 AM
Raheem, why not start reading this thread from the beginning, most of your questions have been handled extensively.
03-26-2017 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicitus
Raheem, why not start reading this thread from the beginning, most of your questions have been handled extensively.
Good idea. Still fighting to be unfrozen.

One good thing - I'm not in America so I didn't vote Trump.
03-26-2017 , 10:27 AM

https://twitter.com/yottapoint/statu...12917764845568
03-26-2017 , 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
People who voted for Trump are really ****ing over America.
FYP. Not past tense. By continuing to fight for him and fight for "winning" while not caring about policy outcomes, they are helping him destroy all of our institutions, and with them the very fabric of American democracy itself. It's happening right in front of our eyes and guys like awval are running around bragging about it.

We have failed to teach an entire generation the lessons of history: fascism, authoritarianism, and despotism are constant threats to democracy that must be thwarted EVERY DAY. Now we must get those lessons through to people before it's too late.
03-26-2017 , 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
I'm sure the Hillary's emails crowd will be very concerned about this.


https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...62034818043904
I don't know about congressional subpoenas, but this would be impermissible in a civil context when there's a reasonable apprehension of suit. I suspect that's doubly true for investigations. Then again Trump's lawyers probably telling people to burn everything.
03-26-2017 , 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
We have failed to teach an entire generation the lessons of history: fascism, authoritarianism, and despotism are constant threats to democracy that must be thwarted EVERY DAY.
Also nepotism. Ivanka is moving to the White House.
03-26-2017 , 10:39 AM
Only 30 Percent of Millennials Believe It's 'Essential' to Live in a Democracy
http://www.complex.com/life/2016/12/...y-is-essential
Quote:
The New York Times reports that political scientists Yascha Mounk of Harvard and Robert Stefan Foa of the University of Melbourne in Australia have studied democracies and how people feel about them—and it's not looking good. In an upcoming article in The Journal of Democracy, the duo describes the growing lack of faith in democracy, which they call "democratic deconsolidation."

The findings are troubling:

Across numerous countries, including Australia, Britain, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Sweden and the United States, the percentage of people who say it is “essential” to live in a democracy has plummeted, and it is especially low among younger generations.


https://twitter.com/bill_easterly/st...y-is-essential
03-26-2017 , 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Only 30 Percent of Millennials Believe It's 'Essential' to Live in a Democracy
http://www.complex.com/life/2016/12/...y-is-essential
It's happening because this generation has no understanding of the alternatives thanks to not living in them and Fukuyama's idiotic "end of history" in 1989.
03-26-2017 , 10:45 AM

https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/846005844894535680
03-26-2017 , 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MvdB
Why would the Democrats want a shutdown? Wasn't it really bad publicity for the Republicans when they blocked it last time around?
So you think blaming the democrats for a shutdown is a winning strategy for the republicans when they have both houses + presidency?

      
m