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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

03-25-2017 , 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagine
I feel this is a full-on civil war within the GOP.
Mercer vs Koch
Apparently the Kochs hates The Donald lol. So we should be thanking the Kochs for today rather than any competence from the Dems.
^this. koch bros cucked him so hard with their announcement of a special election fund for those who vote "no", after trump called all these GOP clowns into a special meeting to try and coerce/strongarm them through intimidation
03-25-2017 , 09:08 AM
he is an abject failure of a dealmaker btw, this should be the headline on repeat for the rest of his time in
03-25-2017 , 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raheem
That's not my solution. I asked if it was your solution. You didn't even try to deny it...
Raheem, if you are genuinely on the autism spectrum and are trying to learn I would advise you to read more main stream news (e.g. NOT Fox) and speak less about subjects that you admit you know very little about.

On the other hand, if you are a troll, you should just leave, especially since your claim that you all of sudden woke up from brainwashing on a specific day is pretty hard to believe.
03-25-2017 , 09:26 AM
I am reading Msm everq since monday. Thats the day i woke up. Makes perfect sense
03-25-2017 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerowo
Why do you guys respond to raheem? His posts are short and easy to scroll past.
Confirming this. Also getting an unfrozen caveman woke drumpf supporter vibe.
03-25-2017 , 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Obviously nuclear destruction and martial law may be in our future, Trump doesn't need to realy build popular consensus for that.

But this has been a theme of mine lately. While the stuff about the GOP incompetence clown show is of course true, and funny, I think the catastrophic underestimation here is just how important welfare programs are to people. That government provisions for well-being and social support are hugely popular and necessary. That's the holistic failure of the liberal bubble: NOT that the right-wing trope that the movement is caught up in creating snowflake politically correct safe spaces. That's not the offense of the bubble. But that we totally lost the language of talking to people about the practical, real ways in which government matters and can deliver things that make their lives easier, keeps them healthier, gives them economic security, and dignity.

Think of how much self-induced pain the GOP stirred up for themselves here, how much panic they created in the electorate that depends on Obamacare, and how that political pressure created an outcome we cheer as liberals. That's how you win this ****ing country back. It's not depicting Republicans as sexual assault enthusiasts and Russian kompromats although they might very well be both. It's not David Axelrod and David Plouffe microtargetting soccer moms from deep within the catacombs of a database on convertible swing district voters. It's probably not even Hope and Change memetics and charisma, although obviously that helps.

Republicans are taking your damn money and giving it to rich people. Democrats are going to take rich people's money and give it back to everyone else. It's that simple. Say that for the next 2 to 4 years. Let them Red Bait and cry infinite tears of sadness about this on Fox News or whatever. Let them moan the government is so inefficient and can't deliver. Let the strategists threaten this is all anathema to the donor class, who we need because if not them who will fund the TV ad buys they take a 3% rake on, that their livelihood depends on.

I hope people don't forget this lesson: Obamacare is kinda flawed, is in many ways subservient to the desires of the health care industry, is really a pale comparison to the single payer health system we all deserve, and yet it does just enough good and the constituent pressure so real and genuine that EVEN THE MODERN ****ING GOP had to kowtow and respect the popular consensus on this. This is a political movement based on giving the middle finger to broad popular consensus and flattering rich elites and they have no idea how to respond to any of this.
DVaut is exactly correct, especially about the bolded part. In the immediate period after the election, there was a lot of overreaction from Democrats about what Trump's victory meant for the future of the Democratic party. The Democratic party doesn't need to radically alter its principles. It just needs to emphasize the right things.

On a less sanguine note, there were a lot of beltway GOP types who concluded in the wake of two Obama victories that the GOP needed to be more welcoming to Latino voters to be competitive at the national level. Sadly, Trump proved that this response was also an overreaction.
03-25-2017 , 09:56 AM
I also think it would be an overreaction to assume that Trump will be unable to implement any meaningful part of his agenda just because he couldn't get a healthcare bill passed.

Passing healthcare bills in the US is damn difficult, although it should have been much easier for a party that had control of both houses of Congress. The AHCA is complicated and full of compromises in large part because of how difficult it is to pass health care legislation.

All that said, this was a wildly incompetent attempt to pass a healthcare bill.
03-25-2017 , 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hornbug
Lowering expectations is a good thing, when he gets his small victories on other issues he will get more credit. Good to get the big loses out of the way early, the wall and obamacare repeal.

Passing a new health plan would have been a disater for the 2018 election, every glitch magnified in the media right before the election. Bad for the GOP. Remenber Obama postponed Obamacare to 2014 so he could win in 2012. He won 2012 and left the democrats to suffer in 2014.
Lol Wut?
03-25-2017 , 10:22 AM
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...failure-236485

This seems to say that GOP tax reform is going to be a lot less robust than before because they couldn't save the 1T through Obamacare repeal. And it will just be more cuts than reform.


This ontop of the appropriations bills and debt ceiling issues. And why would Freedom Caucus care about trumps threats now? They just cucked him.
03-25-2017 , 10:28 AM
Does anyone have an opinion on the border adjusted tax? I know obviously importers (retail) are against it and exporters (GE, Boeing) are for it.
03-25-2017 , 10:32 AM
Tax reform is an interesting thing to handicap. The GOP actually has a very deep bench of good tax policies (including lots of revenue raisers) from the Camp days. On the other hand, the Brady blueprint is full of a lot of moonshot type ideas that are either expensive (repeal AMT) or controversial (expensing of investments plus non deductible interest) or super controversial (border adjustment). In addition healthcare demonstrates the absolute bankruptcy of congressional and executive leadership of the legislative process. It will be interesting to see what happens.
03-25-2017 , 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onlydo2days
Does anyone have an opinion on the border adjusted tax? I know obviously importers (retail) are against it and exporters (GE, Boeing) are for it.
It's nuts and will never pass. Tariffs create artificial inefficiencies in the markets and are almost always a net negative for everyone. If we do a border adjustment tax other countries will retaliate with their own. Even our exporters will suffer because of that. If you want a good idea on what tariffs can do, google the "Smoot-Hawley" tariff.

Edit: Border adjustment tax will have an even higher hurdle than AHCA, the libertarian wing of the GOP will revolt like they did with AHCA (Koch's, etc.), but the big business wing will revolt as well. It's possible a few populist democrats come along for the ride (people in the Sanders camp), but its also just as likely that democrats block it en masse to watch the republicans flounder.
03-25-2017 , 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onlydo2days
Does anyone have an opinion on the border adjusted tax? I know obviously importers (retail) are against it and exporters (GE, Boeing) are for it.
Border adjustment is basically DOA. Keep in mind that you don't just need to have majority buy-in to an idea like this in the GOP side, you need to have near unanimity, because there won't be any Democratic votes for tax reform. Retailers can definitely get enough no votes to sink a bill with BA in it.

HOWEVER, BA scores something like $800 billion in revenue, so its demise will blow a gigantic hole in revenue neutrality. This goes back to the bankruptcy of the leadership. Competent leadership would not have allowed tax reform plans to get drawn up on the basis of $800 billion of revenue that is highly unlikely to be there. One likely failure mode is elimination of BA -> gruesome CBO score for the rump tax reform plan -> bitter infighting as different GOP try to keep their pet ideas in a downsized plan -> sad Paul Ryan.
03-25-2017 , 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
It's nuts and will never pass. Tariffs create artificial inefficiencies in the markets and are almost always a net negative for everyone. If we do a border adjustment tax other countries will retaliate with their own. Even our exporters will suffer because of that. If you want a good idea on what tariffs can do, google the "Smoot-Hawley" tariff.

Edit: Border adjustment tax will have an even higher hurdle than AHCA, the libertarian wing of the GOP will revolt like they did with AHCA (Koch's, etc.), but the big business wing will revolt as well. It's possible a few populist democrats come along for the ride (people in the Sanders camp), but its also just as likely that democrats block it en masse to watch the republicans flounder.
This is not quite right though. The Econ 101 analysis is that the dollar just goes up by 20% and there's no effect on trade. Other countries border adjust their VATs and are allowed to do so by WTO. The concern that retailers have is that the adjustment in currency markets won't be perfect and they'll be left facing a bigger tax bill. (Also in that case BA would have tariff-like effects.)
03-25-2017 , 11:13 AM
What if the GOP throws the Dems a bone to get them to come to the table? Say take some of the tax cuts off the top 2-3% and put them on middle class (even tax credits for children like Rubio wanted or a payroll tax cut for the poor which I believe Rand Paul wanted)

If they just come out with the typical cookie-cutter 30-35% of the cuts go to 2% of the people I just feel like that isn't going to have much support in this new information age. Especially after a big criticism of the ACHA was that it was just a tax cut for the rich.
03-25-2017 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
Lol Wut?
It started in 2010 but many of the provisions were delayed to take effect in 2014.
03-25-2017 , 11:22 AM
They can't take tax cuts away from the rich, that's the whole ballgame for them.
03-25-2017 , 11:32 AM
Let's see the A team in action

Quote:
When the balky hardliners of the House Freedom Caucus visited the White House earlier this week, this was Steve Bannon's opening line, according to people in the conference room in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building:

Guys, look. This is not a discussion. This is not a debate. You have no choice but to vote for this bill.

One of the members replied:*"You know, the last time someone ordered me to something, I was 18 years old. And it was my daddy. And I didn't listen to him, either."
Quote:
Trump relied too long on assurances from Chief of Staff Reince Priebus and HHS Secretary Tom Price that they had the process in hand. And "Ryan was telling him it was fine, and they'd bring it together at the end." Instead, the bottom fell out.
https://www.axios.com/inside-the-tru...329417172.html
03-25-2017 , 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron81
At first, I was gonna contradict the claim that the GOP cares about entitlements because the majority of the AHCA opposition came from the Teahadists. Then I remembered that the GOP didn't want to replace at all, yet Ryan felt he had to. AHCA certainly got more votes than a straight repeal would.
Yeah, I got the #1 most important factor here as the constituents calling "moderate" (lol) Republicans and forcing them to reject an outright repeal.
03-25-2017 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic
not working...oh well
Try putting the tweet number between the [ tweet ]
[ /tweet ] tags. make your own tags or push the twitter button to create the tags. There needs to be no spaces in the tags. Try it.
03-25-2017 , 11:55 AM
Appropriate visual of Trump's presidency so far:
03-25-2017 , 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onlydo2days
What if the GOP throws the Dems a bone to get them to come to the table? Say take some of the tax cuts off the top 2-3% and put them on middle class (even tax credits for children like Rubio wanted or a payroll tax cut for the poor which I believe Rand Paul wanted)

If they just come out with the typical cookie-cutter 30-35% of the cuts go to 2% of the people I just feel like that isn't going to have much support in this new information age. Especially after a big criticism of the ACHA was that it was just a tax cut for the rich.
Any Democrat voting for Trump tax reform is taking a real risk of being assassinated by a WarrenBro.
03-25-2017 , 12:04 PM
Yo Dom,

Just quote someone who does it right. It's magic!
03-25-2017 , 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
Any Democrat voting for Trump tax reform is taking a real risk of being assassinated by a WarrenBro.
Yeah Democrats are dumb and terrible but you gotta be really dumb and really terrible to try to sell "I voted to repeal capital gains tax to work across the aisle with President Muslim Ban, I'm reasonable and bipartisan"
03-25-2017 , 12:35 PM
Dow is crashing. They think the tax cuts are not gonna happen.

Trump is tweeting Obamacare will "explode".

Big stuff going on.

      
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