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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

03-24-2017 , 06:06 PM
Stock market took a small hit after the bill failed today so I imagine the making tax reform harder part probably has some truth though not sure why.
03-24-2017 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
Budget reconciliation is basically a zero sum game. If you want to spend money you have to cut the equivalent expenses elsewhere. The ACHA would have cut costs (which is kind of lol under the guise of better healthcare) which then could be used to offset tax cuts that were mostly going to the very top tax brackets.

Personally I think tax cuts is a pretty fundamentally dumb agenda item but a major tax overhaul/reform is needed. However people are not being overtaxed relative to pretty much the entire history of the country and we just need to focus on spending money more intelligently. Think we could probably fund most of universal healthcare with a real budget overhaul and not increasing any taxes on citizens.
Where do you think the dead weight is?
03-24-2017 , 06:13 PM
Wouldn't tax cuts be in the 2-400b range a year? The AHCA wouldn't save that much to make it possible for the whole thing to be deficit neutral would it? Also wasn't the AHCA medicare surcharge cut what was offset by the medicaid cuts? How do they get more tax cuts from that legislation?

So now would they have to find a bunch of other cuts to get tax reform? Where can they even get it?

Agree on tax simplification but feel it'll never happen on much of a grand scale, too many jobs based on middleman compliance.
03-24-2017 , 06:14 PM
Part of the reason why Trump chose General Mattis to be Secretary of Defense is he looks a lot like General Patton.

03-24-2017 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic
Raheem, sorry the forum has been so tough on you...you are welcome here and i'm glad you are starting to see the light.
Yes, same from me. We are all a little paranoid and on edge these days, but definitely glad to see another person ready to fight Trump and fascism.
03-24-2017 , 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onlydo2days
Wouldn't tax cuts be in the 2-400b range a year? The AHCA wouldn't save that much to make it possible for the whole thing to be deficit neutral would it? Also wasn't the AHCA medicare surcharge cut what was offset by the medicaid cuts? How do they get more tax cuts from that legislation?

So now would they have to find a bunch of other cuts to get tax reform? Where can they even get it?
They'll probably just handwave it by saying that cutting taxes increases revenues because reasons like they always have.
03-24-2017 , 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onlydo2days
Wouldn't tax cuts be in the 2-400b range a year? The AHCA wouldn't save that much to make it possible for the whole thing to be deficit neutral would it? Also wasn't the AHCA medicare surcharge cut what was offset by the medicaid cuts? How do they get more tax cuts from that legislation?

So now would they have to find a bunch of other cuts to get tax reform? Where can they even get it?

Agree on tax simplification but feel it'll never happen on much of a grand scale, too many jobs based on middleman compliance.
No they had all sorts of other cuts. If you remember the budget they reposed it cut almost everything but defense spending and a few others. Even without the ACHA there will be proposed cuts but there were additional cuts that were going to be funded by the ACHA money, for the top income brackets.
03-24-2017 , 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese
Where do you think the dead weight is?
Hospital care, prescription drugs and medical devices.
03-24-2017 , 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese
Where do you think the dead weight is?
Military seems obvious. You're spending 3x as much as the 2nd biggest spender.
03-24-2017 , 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raheem
I don't feel lonely at all at the moment. I just wish people would stop attacking me and causing mental anguish.
Take a deep breath and a long toke. Close your eyes and imagine your happy place. Disabuse yourself of iq scores and poker winnings. None of those things matter. What matters is speaking to people who comfort you by their actions, who show empathy, concern, and hope. Open your eyes and open this webpage https://www.womensmarch.com/100/action2/ . Find a huddle close to you and attend it this month. You'll feel a little better every time you do some constructive way of resistance.
03-24-2017 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic
Raheem, sorry the forum has been so tough on you...you are welcome here and i'm glad you are starting to see the light.
+1
03-24-2017 , 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylar
Take a deep breath and a long toke. Close your eyes and imagine your happy place. Disabuse yourself of iq scores and poker winnings. None of those things matter. What matters is speaking to people who comfort you by their actions, who show empathy, concern, and hope. Open your eyes and open this webpage https://www.womensmarch.com/100/action2/ . Find a huddle close to you and attend it this month. You'll feel a little better every time you do some constructive way of resistance.
I don't like the idea of women's march. I'm a man. Sure as hell I don't wanna march cos I have some physical problems and I don't like walking and I don't think some of the women would even want me marching with them.

Right now I'm in a good place. Trust me. I just come across a little crazy, but I'm okay. I'm in a better place than I've been for the past three years I would say.

Women marching I don't have a problem with as long as it's peaceful, which it is. I like the idea.

You can't grab women by the pussy. That tape should've destroyed Trump, but idk how he came back. Scary world.
03-24-2017 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
No they had all sorts of other cuts. If you remember the budget they reposed it cut almost everything but defense spending and a few others. Even without the ACHA there will be proposed cuts but there were additional cuts that were going to be funded by the ACHA money, for the top income brackets.
Yeah but wasn't the budget revenue neutral already (i.e tax cuts would make it deficit spending) because the cuts were offset by the 54B in military spenidng gains?

So now, where do they get 3-400B of cuts (I believe the Bush tax cuts were 375B a year?)
03-24-2017 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raheem
I don't like the idea of women's march. I'm a man. Sure as hell I don't wanna march cos I have some physical problems and I don't like walking and I don't think some of the women would even want me marching with them.

Right now I'm in a good place. Trust me. I just come across a little crazy, but I'm okay. I'm in a better place than I've been for the past three years I would say.

Women marching I don't have a problem with as long as it's peaceful, which it is. I like the idea.

You can't grab women by the pussy. That tape should've destroyed Trump, but idk how he came back. Scary world.
A huddle is not a March.
03-24-2017 , 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylar
A huddle is not a March.
Yeah I guess. I'll think about it. Just don't worry about me. I'll be okay. I have a brother and two parents that I see regularly.

I actually had an American girlfriend that injected me with conservative propaganda. One time she said she was offered a role to be an American spy. Maybe she was telling the truth and she took the offer.
03-24-2017 , 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raheem
Yeah I guess. I'll think about it. Just don't worry about me. I'll be okay. I have a brother and two parents that I see regularly.

I actually had an American girlfriend that injected me with conservative propaganda. One time she said she was offered a role to be an American spy. Maybe she was telling the truth and she took the offer.
Create your own huddle with your parents and brother! Invent new forms of dissent.
03-24-2017 , 06:33 PM
If anyone isn't reading Ezra Klein, they should be.

His work at Vox is top notch and he is a workhorse. 4 different columns about ACHA alone today.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...alth-bill-ahca

His latest
03-24-2017 , 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylar
Create your own huddle with your parents and brother! Invent new forms of dissent.
Yeah I have talked with them. They somewhat agree with me about Trump, that he's bad.
03-24-2017 , 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raheem
Yeah I have talked with them. They somewhat agree with me about Trump, that he's bad.
That's good. The next thing to do is find some ways to act positively. It can be in your own local community too, but find some way to fight this. Fascism is spreading potentially across Europe as well and it is very much a global threat.
03-24-2017 , 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
That's good. The next thing to do is find some ways to act positively. It can be in your own local community too, but find some way to fight this. Fascism is spreading potentially across Europe as well and it is very much a global threat.
Yeah, except they failed in the Netherlands and I'm fairly sure they're gonna fail in France. Everyone needs to calm down a little bit and just see how everything plays out. But peaceful resistance is always good. Gandhi is good.
03-24-2017 , 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmgGlutten!
Gabriel Sherman writes that White House chief strategist and former Breitbart News executive chairman Steve Bannon has privately expressed concern that the American Health Care Act (AHCA) betrays the populist voters who put Donald Trump in the White House.
From New York Magazine:

The failure to repeal and replace Obamacare would be a stinging defeat for Trump. But it would be an even bigger defeat for Paul Ryan, who has all but staked his Speakership on passing this bill. And in the hall of mirrors that is Washington, the big winner to emerge out of the health-care debacle could be Steve Bannon. That’s because Bannon has been waging war against Ryan for years. For Bannon, Ryan is the embodiment of the “globalist-corporatist” Republican elite. A failed bill would be Bannon’s best chance yet to topple Ryan and advance his nationalist-populist economic agenda.

Publicly, Bannon has been working to help the bill pass. But privately he’s talked it down in recent days. According to a source close to the White House, Bannon said that he’s unhappy with the Ryan bill because it “doesn’t drive down costs” and was “written by the insurance industry.” While the bill strips away many of Obamacare’s provisions, it does not go as far as Bannon would wish to “deconstruct the administrative state” in the realm of health care. Furthermore, Bannon has been distancing himself from the bill to insulate himself from political fallout of it failing. He’s told people that Trump economic adviser Gary Cohn — a West Wing rival — has run point on it. (Bannon did not respond to a request for comment.)

...eh it has twice as many comments as everything else on there.
OK where's where I can't tell if Bannon is just dumb or saving face and just a normal free market Republican who just wants to put white people first on cultural issues. "It's obvious in the last few days" that this bill goes against Trump's populist appeals? Where was he for the entirety of the bill? It was 100% obvious that this wasn't going to make insurance "better" which is supposedly what the populists want. If you could read any analysis on the bill it would have told you that. It was to cut taxes. You could say that he wants to "dismantle the administrative state" but then he'd be supporting the Freedom Caucus, who want to cut all the regulation out, not against them.
03-24-2017 , 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raheem
Yeah, except they failed in the Netherlands and I'm fairly sure they're gonna fail in France. Everyone needs to calm down a little bit and just see how everything plays out. But peaceful resistance is always good. Gandhi is good.
Democracy is a never-ending fight. As soon as you take it for granted, you get somebody like Trump who can tear the whole thing down in far less time than it takes to build up peace and prosperity and enterprise. Remaining vigilant means remaining active. We all have to find ways to positively contribute to our own communities and countries in this fight.
03-24-2017 , 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raheem
Yeah, except they failed in the Netherlands and I'm fairly sure they're gonna fail in France. Everyone needs to calm down a little bit and just see how everything plays out. But peaceful resistance is always good. Gandhi is good.
Absolutely not. This is why we are in the mess we are in.

"Stop overreacting! Give Trump a chance!" You've heard this before I assume.

The problem is once you give something a chance, oftentimes, you can't undo it.

The only way to fight authoritarianism and fascism is to stop it before it begins.
03-24-2017 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV Life
Absolutely not. This is why we are in the mess we are in.

"Stop overreacting! Give Trump a chance!" You've heard this before I assume.

The problem is once you give something a chance, oftentimes, you can't undo it.

The only way to fight authoritarianism and fascism is to stop it before it begins.
Okay, sure. I'm just saying violence is not the answer, and I don't think that's what you're saying.
03-24-2017 , 06:51 PM
We're not talking about violence at all. Grassroots activism can take many forms. It can be as simple as taking on the project of building a community garden that people in the neighborhood help grow the food, take care of the garden, and get fresh fruits and vegetables whenever they need it.

      
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