The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. - Page 845 - Politics and Economics

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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

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03-24-2017 , 02:29 PM

#21101

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomdemaine

Raheem,

Do you understand that your pleas for clemency for you and all other trump voters rings quite hollow considering firstly that we ****ing told you this **** would happen over and over and over again and you didn't listen and secondly that the trump breitbart o'reilly people give absolutely no quarter when it comes to mistakes made by say african americans. You get caught with a quarter of weed? Personal responsibility, zero tolerance, no parole. You're an 18 year old girl who has sex and gets pregnant? No abortion, personal responsibility, raise that kid even if it ruins your life. You and millions of people like you willfully disregard the obvious signs that trump is a pure conman scumbag and vote a dangerous lunatic into office? Please no backlash just care and understanding and another chance. It's pretty ****ing tilting to hear tbh.

O'Reilly is in support of special programs to helping Afro-Americans. Trump wants to relax the war on drugs. Trump is not extreme when it comes to abortion. Slightly more extreme than I would like him to be, but it is what it is.

You realise that in some ways old-school Republicans are scarier than Trump?

03-24-2017 , 02:30 PM

#21102

RV Life

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 1,935

Clovis,

The general position from the left (at least for me) is to get rid of oil/coal 100%. So when I hear about pipelines being built, it pisses me off because I know it's an investment in oil and not solar/wind/etc.

If the US could get rid of the dependency on oil, it would solve a lot of problems. There would be no need to be bogged down in the Middle East, we would be addressing Climate Change, etc.

03-24-2017 , 02:31 PM

#21103

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oroku$aki

Snowflake.

That's literally a term Trump supporters use. You are a Trump supporter? I'm not judging you if you are.

03-24-2017 , 02:31 PM

#21104

AllTheCheese

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,898

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

I gotta say when conservatives start spitting lines straight out of 2p2 Politics, it makes me happy. I do feel like some small number of them are waking up.

03-24-2017 , 02:31 PM

#21105

13ball

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 12,912

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

I hope it works, but:

1. if it works, the GOP is still in total control and most of the GOP will be able to quickly distance themselves from the whole thing

Part of me agrees...but if Trump goes down because of Russia this just adds more stress to the cracks in the GOP. More importantly, the rabid know-nothing base is weakened and demoralized. I think they lose a ton of turnout in upcoming elections. I agree that it's a longshot for Russian ties to do any real damage, but if damage is done it will be extensive and pay off well in years, but agreed not immediately.

Quote:

2. If it doesn't work, it's a time sink -- a lost opportunity of time/money/effort from everyone on the left that pays journalists and writes Explainers and uses twitter and has a cable news show and uses their money to put people into office and then subsequently uses those government positions to communicate with voters -- all of that time/energy/money is supposed to be used to build ideological cases for outcomes we want.

The only outcome that gets you anything is the one where Trump is removed from office. The reward is President Pence/Ryan.

If the left pours tons of time and money into obstructing the AHCA and spending a lot of time, attention and money pointing out its flaws, demonstrating why it's slavish to the health care industry and works primarily to ease the tax burden of the wealthy, and that our alternatives provide better care for more people, you win two ways:

1. damage Trump AND the GOP
2. sell yourself

The Russia story only does #1, and really doesn't even hit the GOP that hard.

Good point, but whynotboh.jpg seems obvious here. Democrats do not have a good track record of explaining healthcare policy to people. Plus, I think the Russia jabs hit Trump right in his foreign policy weak spot. I'd just repeat things that McCain and Graham say about it for maximum pressure creation.

03-24-2017 , 02:32 PM

#21106

Oroku$aki

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Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 7,063

Quote:

Originally Posted by raheem

O'Reilly is in support of special programs to helping Afro-Americans. Trump wants to relax the war on drugs. Trump is not extreme when it comes to abortion. Slightly more extreme than I would like him to be, but it is what it is.

You realise that in some ways old-school Republicans are scarier than Trump?

What? You can't be attempting to tell people what's what at this point. Christ.

03-24-2017 , 02:32 PM

#21107

JacktheDumb

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,427

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTD

I still can't get my head around the view that Dems should focus far less on the Russia issue. Obv there are lots of aspects to this, but I'd hope that conclusive proof that Trump and part of his team blatantly lied for months would be worth something. More than any policy arguments anyway.

Of course he's been lying constantly for years, but this could potentially be something he couldn't brush off.

What exactly would they have to find? At this point it seems obvious that their was collusion, but in the end you wont be able to pin it on Trump. People will just think that he is an idiot who didn't know what is going on which is what they already think about him. How would you estimate the chance of Trump being impeached for it? And even if that happens the GOP is still there and in power.

Trump will destroy himself but the Dems have the unique opportunity to destroy GOP by branding them as corrupt, self enriching elites who hate poor.

Last edited by JacktheDumb; 03-24-2017 at 02:41 PM.

03-24-2017 , 02:35 PM

#21108

DVaut1

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Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 30,005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

Noticed this too. Think it's inevitable this all filters through from the fever swamps to FNC/Brietbart and eventually builds its way to Trump/Ryan as they start to 'negotiate' and settle on precisely this.

By the way, totally predictable:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosdef View Post
They thought he was going to get rid of Obamacare (healthcare for blacks and Muslims, probably) not the Affordable Care Act (a good thing for whites).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

One minor but extent risk is that the GOP flounders a bit for a few months, even years during the Trump Admin trying to cobble together a coalition for their domestic policies but then settle on precisely this strategy. When Round 2 of the AHCA or RyanCare or whatever it's called is far more explicitly a good things for whites but not blacks or other undeservings kind of plan.

I mean here we are, where the GOP is throwing off the bonds of racial and religious egalitarian norms in rhetoric but largely not in health care policy yet (e.g., no one on the GOP side is proposing racial or religious tests to get government assistance).

But they also can't get the tax/spending math together to satisfy the Ryan wing, e.g., the tax and debt hawks of the party, and they can't get enough coverage and handouts for the middle class and older whites to satisfy the Trump wing.

What is the modern GOP but a second best compromise between the Ryan wing that lower taxes and a white working class that does NOT want a lower taxes, but does not want to be paying taxes and accepting of tax where benefits go to minorities/immigrants?

The result so far, in rhetoric, increasingly immigration policy, maybe foreign policy -- is nationalist populism that satisfies both groups.

I don't see why they won't arrive to this sooner or later: the judiciary and the law is likely strong enough to stand up to anything overt, but like voters IDs and the now reformed travel ban, like criminal justice and sentencing, like zoning laws in cities -- legislators are entirely capable of writing laws that give de facto assistance to whites over blacks even if they can't do it on a de jure basis.

It's probably far more likely the GOP just flounders and clowns around and does nothing, but I can very easily imagine where the GOP sees electoral risk headed their way and pivots the Trumpian/Bannon, far-right nationalist European path: "OK, OK, conceded: we're going to get a great CBO score on this 'health care for whites, nothing for blacks and other layabouts' plan" whereby they satisfy both wings by giving whites health care and producing the savings by not giving it to blacks and Muslims and single mothers and whoever else.

It's pretty clearly exactly what their voters want. You mean it sardonically but the reason why the right-wing is tearing itself up over this is encapsulated in your quip here: the Ryan wing is trying to reform health care in a race neutral way that simply enriches themselves and gets them more money. The Trump wing is trying to reach the voters who wanted to get rid of Obamacare for blacks but wants to keep the Affordable Care Act for whites. Both sides can get behind what the other wants so long as they get something they want. It seems like they'll square that circle eventually, it's like the perpetual compromise of the modern GOP. Why not here?

03-24-2017 , 02:35 PM

#21109

Oroku$aki

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Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 7,063

Quote:

Originally Posted by raheem

That's literally a term Trump supporters use. You are a Trump supporter? I'm not judging you if you are.

I'm judging you. Gtfo of here.

03-24-2017 , 02:35 PM

#21110

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

No-one has a complete understanding of reality. No-one. We're here talking about the Trump presidency and I hope we can do that in a civil manner.

03-24-2017 , 02:35 PM

#21111

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oroku$aki

I'm judging you. Gtfo of here.

No, you gtfo.

See how that works?

03-24-2017 , 02:37 PM

#21112

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

Orokusaki, please stop posting. You're embarrassing yourself.

03-24-2017 , 02:38 PM

#21113

Klingbard

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Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,103

Breaking news this hour:

James Comey is at the White House.

RIGHT WING NUTTY TWITTER SPECULATION: Trump is asking for his resignation/firing him.

LEFT WING NUTTY TWITTER SPECULATION: Comey has a warrant/brought his handcuffs

Who knows, could be something, could be nothing.

03-24-2017 , 02:39 PM

#21114

Clovis8

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 16,503

this thread is in serious need of moderation.

03-24-2017 , 02:41 PM

#21115

einbert

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/845343173119377408

03-24-2017 , 02:43 PM

#21116

aoFrantic

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raheem is pretty active in SE. He's just a Euro who's a bit...slow. He doesn't mean malice, he's just not informed and posts way too much for his level of knowledge :/

03-24-2017 , 02:45 PM

#21117

tomdemaine

Just tries harder

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,065

Quote:

Originally Posted by raheem

You've still got some of that brainwashing to shed it seems. Trump wanted punishment for women who get abortions. Trumps has Jeffery beauregard sessions the third as his AG who has said among other things that weed is as bad as heroin and should be treated as such. O'Reilly is a big fat pill popping racist and one of the biggest (in all respects) race baiters, possibly in history. If you want any kind of understanding from me you have to show me that you won't be as easily "brainwashed" by the next racist ******* that comes a calling looking for your vote. Can you?

03-24-2017 , 02:45 PM

#21118

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by aoFrantic

raheem is pretty active in SE. He's just a Euro who's a bit...slow. He doesn't mean malice, he's just not informed and posts way too much for his level of knowledge :/

Sure, but I do have 120 IQ.

03-24-2017 , 02:46 PM

#21119

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomdemaine

I like Bernie Sanders now. I did wake up. Trust me.

03-24-2017 , 02:47 PM

#21120

hacksaw JD

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 209

noted liberal progressive poster hastenikesdan noticeably quiet today

03-24-2017 , 02:49 PM

#21121

weeeez

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 3,780

People who say they realise trump is bad(to put it mildly) and reference to nazis,have zero excuses and are worse in my mind than actual germany nazis.
here's why:
different times+history teaching+information widely available.

Information is everywhere,from all sides of the arguments,and mainstream media (if you say you just had access to mainstream media) documented every bit of trump madness before hand.

There is zero way a trumpkin never heard of the opposite side arguments,news pop up on computers and TV and you cannot filter everything to your convenience,hence you have to be exposed sometimes to sources of medias you dont agree to.
No sympathy at all for the wake up from brainwashing excuse,its good at least that it happened (even if it seems more of a troll),but brainwashing doesnt happen like that in a second.
If you voted or agreed for trump that means his ideas appealed to you in some ways at some point.

/Tilt

03-24-2017 , 02:51 PM

#21122

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/st...09216701210625

03-24-2017 , 02:52 PM

#21123

raheem

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,235

The things that appealed to me is Trump takes the threat of radical Islamic terrorism seriously. Also he's a businessman so he's good for the economy. Rational things like that. It's frustrating cos you guys seem like you know everything there is to be known, but you really don't. No-one has a complete understanding of reality.

I love all people. No matter their race, religion, gender or any things like that. I still don't see the problem some people have with me. I'm slightly autistic, that's all.

I still see some lefties claim that there's nothing wrong with Islam. I think there needs to be some sort of reformation. Like get the radical part out of it, just like it was taken out of Christianity (mostly).

03-24-2017 , 02:53 PM

#21124

simplicitus

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James Surowiecki‏Verified account @JamesSurowiecki 51m51 minutes ago

If it's possible to play chess in fewer than one dimension, Trump has managed to do it with this health-care bill.