The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. - Page 807 - Politics and Economics

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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

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03-21-2017 , 02:16 PM

#20151

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

I don't think it's boring but at this point, I don't find the narrative politically useful without some kind of reinforcement from law enforcement.

It worked massively well against Clinton

03-21-2017 , 02:16 PM

#20152

einbert

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Obstructing backwards progress is something progressives should be for.

03-21-2017 , 02:16 PM

#20153

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namath12

3) If I'm reading the takes itt correctly, it's being argued that the Dems should not be doing what the GOP has been doing since Obama was sworn in, even though it has brought them massive Congressional electoral success? That doesn't make sense to me if that's what is being argued.

What the GOP did successfully, I think, is translate these nothing scandals into obstruction. Dems are going to fail miserably if they don't understand the second half of that and say "well Benghazi worked out so well for Republicans" (it didn't) "so if we just have all these Russia hearings we'll be fine" while letting Gorsuch go through and Obamacare get repealed.

03-21-2017 , 02:17 PM

#20154

NMcNasty

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namath12

Exactly. Republicans were able to neutralize democratic voters with a flurry of fake and overblown scandals over the course of eight years, now democrats have an actual real scandal, as in its considered serious by every intelligence agency, but we're supposed to lay off because its taking up too much tweet-space.

03-21-2017 , 02:18 PM

#20155

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by otatop

It makes sense from the perspective that the parties' bases don't think all that much alike so you can't necessarily follow what was successful with the other side and expect to have similar success. Being obstructionists works great for conservatives because it's the ultimate way to ensure no progress is made. It probably won't work as well for progressives (in comparison to Rs, not saying the current Dems are all that progressive) because it's the opposite of what they're for.

That said, Dems should be much more obstructionist than they're being currently, especially on things that will matter for decades like SC Justices, otherwise as has been pointed out over and over they're basically giving up on ever nominating a Justice ever again.

Agree with the bolded. That's why I want McConnell going nuclear here, it's pretty much the only way forward.

03-21-2017 , 02:18 PM

#20156

einbert

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Democrats the masters of kicking themselves in the nuts IMO

03-21-2017 , 02:19 PM

#20157

AllTheCheese

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,898

Russ Feingold going hard in the paint on NPR against the Republicans gutting the system, re: Garland and Gorsuch.

03-21-2017 , 02:19 PM

#20158

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllTheCheese

Russ Feingold going hard in the paint on NPR against the Republicans gutting the system, re: Garland and Gorsuch.

Who cares, he lost an unloseable election like 4 months ago

03-21-2017 , 02:20 PM

#20159

General Tsao

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 30,586

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

Whitehouse killing it

you can't be serious....

03-21-2017 , 02:22 PM

#20160

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

you can't be serious....

lol at the libertarian being pro corporate interference in our government

you are an absolute joke

03-21-2017 , 02:23 PM

#20161

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

Who cares, he lost an unloseable election like 4 months ago

Meh, yeah, he did do surprisingly well though considering Trump won the state, better than he did when he lost the seat in 2010.

03-21-2017 , 02:24 PM

#20162

DTD

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,326

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

But understandable confusion. Not calling you a troll though.

Fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree!

03-21-2017 , 02:25 PM

#20163

AllTheCheese

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,898

Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

Chris Coons: (202) 224-5042

Thanks. Threat issued. Everyone call and let them know we won't forget. Primary challenge is coming.

03-21-2017 , 02:25 PM

#20164

einbert

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

lol at the libertarian being pro corporate interference in our government

you are an absolute joke

A guy like Trump is one of the best things to ever happen to "libertarians." He talks a good talk about how he wants to help everybody, make things better for coal miners and rural people, etc. But his real agenda is the same as Paul Ryan's and Rand Paul's--he wants corporations to have as much control over the govt as possible.

03-21-2017 , 02:25 PM

#20165

General Tsao

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 30,586

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

lol at the libertarian being pro corporate interference in our government

you are an absolute joke

I'm not saying I am, but all these policy questions have nothing to do with Gorsuch....He was literally grandstanding...And you bought into it. I guess that's how it works, he spews at the hearing because he knows the plebs will eat it up.

03-21-2017 , 02:27 PM

#20166

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

Uh, OK:
I guess I am just the cynical type but this doesn't feel new or different. You make it sound like Putin just invented lying and bull****, and packaging it together with the new technologies and entertainment. I remain skeptical. Isn't this just the tabloid style; yellow journalism and the Murdoch model? These stories sound a little old school; they sound like a well-worn playbook. Isn't the "pretend a small ethnic minority population is under attack by your opponents just across the border to justify your aggression and incursions" just the Gleiwitz incident? Isn't mixing propaganda and lies and entertainment just the modern day implementation of Leni Riefenstahl?

I dunno. RUSSIA COMPLETELY REWROTE THE BOOK by what, inventing lying? Fantastic bull****? Authoring pretend history? Mixing in technology and entertainment? Pretty sure this is not new but I suppose I don't really care, nothing in this article seems relevant here. That Putin is engaged in propaganda is not at all in question. It's efficacy is entirely in question but you don't want to talk about that. Instead we want to talk about all the new wrinkles he's added in, like different kinds of lies and fictions, and using TV. I maintain this is not new, interesting or qualitatively different form of propaganda.

Holy cherry picking batman.

The articles linked articulate a lot more what has changed, as does the BBC documentary by Adam Curits. You dont seem interested in genuine engagement on this issue, which is depressing.

03-21-2017 , 02:29 PM

#20167

Dominic

Tripod

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 74,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

Here is my challenge for you David. Study the issues more. I want you to take a logical hacksaw to your negative income tax idea, for example.

The thing is that we have to push solutions that are feasible in the short term, while pushing towards things that are more ideal in the long term--and just going in that direction somehow in the short term. Instead of pushing for negative income tax, spending your political capital trying to fight AHCA instead would be much more helpful in the short-term. The Affordable Care Act was, in many ways, one of the most significant pieces of civil rights legislation in recent history. It secured important benefits for people like the right to get health insurance even if they had a pre-existing condition, the right to know that they are safely covered under the ten mandatory guidelines for all health insurance programs in the Affordable Care Act (for example mental health care). They know that if they somehow lose their main job, they can get health insurance at a reasonable price through the health insurance exchanges in each state or even be covered under Medicaid if things get tough enough. Trump wants to roll all of that back. He wants to make it much more difficult for working and middle class families to even GET health insurance, let alone quality health insurance that they know their family will be taken care of after they've paid in hundreds of dollars a month for years.

Marginal cost versus marginal benefit is at the core of all of these questions just like in poker. And the political uphill battle to get something wonky like negative income tax means it's not worth it right now, when we should be fighting this very winnable battle of saving the Affordable Care Act.

So in other words, this ISN'T a thought experiment. This is real life. We have to be practical about these things. But I really would like for you to put more effort in and get more engaged. I would like to see some of your more sharpened political opinions after that happens.

nicely said

03-21-2017 , 02:30 PM

#20168

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

lol at you not knowing anything about Gorsuch's connections to corporate lobbying

just stop talking bro, you only embarrass yourself even more

03-21-2017 , 02:32 PM

#20169

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Old Russian system:

Try and interfere secretly with Yanklandian election, top secret, serious business.

New Russian system:

Maybe try and interfere with Yanklandain system, but let everyone know we definitely did try and interfere with Yanklandian election, or maybe trololololol? Everything has the taint now, win/win how can we lose?

03-21-2017 , 02:34 PM

#20170

goofyballer

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Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

I guess that's how it works, he spews at the hearing because he knows the plebs will eat it up.

LOL taso thinks he isn't a pleb

03-21-2017 , 02:34 PM

#20171

General Tsao

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 30,586

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

Whitehouse killing it

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

you can't be serious....

For the record, I'd be surprised that anyone thought anyone in this hearing is "killing it". This is all vapid nonsense. That an educated person would think this stuff is "killing it" is scary.

03-21-2017 , 02:49 PM

#20172

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Putin obviously has not advanced Russian political technology at all.

He has only been able to become one of the richest men on earth, have massive popularity in his own country and effectively have more power than any post Stalin communist leader, have absolutely no domestic threats to his rule.

The idea that he has done this in any other way than cribbing standard Soviet power plays (which worked out really well for them) is obviously FAKE NEWS.

No one has mastered how far up shall we jump mr Putin in his own country like Putin, but of course he has done this via the same methods that made all the old Soviet leaders so uniformly popular.

Last edited by O.A.F.K.1.1; 03-21-2017 at 02:54 PM.

03-21-2017 , 02:58 PM

#20173

DBLK

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 163

Looks like the Trump Tower was wiretapped after all.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story-fbi-w...ry?id=46266198

Quote:

There, indeed, was an FBI wiretap involving Russians at Trump Tower.

But it was not placed at the behest of Barack Obama and the target was not the Trump campaign of 2016. For two years ending in 2013, the FBI had a court-approved warrant to eavesdrop on a sophisticated Russian organized crime money laundering network that operated out of unit 63A in Trump Tower.

The FBI investigation led to a federal grand jury indictment of more than 30 people, including one of the world’s most notorious Russian mafia bosses, Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov.

Five months after the April 2013 indictment and after Interpol issued a “red notice” for Tokhtakhounov, the fugitive appeared near Donald Trump in the VIP section of the Moscow Miss Universe pageant. Trump had sold the Russian rights for Miss Universe to a billionaire Russian shopping mall developer.

The FBI investigation did not implicate Trump. But Trump Tower was under close watch. Some of the Russian mafia figures worked out of the 63rd floor unit in the iconic skyscraper –- just three floors below Trump’s penthouse residence -- running what prosecutors called an “international money laundering, sports gambling and extortion ring.”

The Trump building was home to one of the top men in the alleged ring, Vadim Trincher who pleaded guilty to racketeering and received a five-year prison term.

Last edited by DBLK; 03-21-2017 at 03:05 PM.

03-21-2017 , 02:59 PM

#20174

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Maxine Waters is quite possibly the single dumbest person in Congress.

O RLY

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

wtf

Last edited by pvn; 03-21-2017 at 03:00 PM. Reason: for realz tho she's helladumb

03-21-2017 , 03:02 PM

#20175

goofball

Beat Nate Silver

Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 20,428

Ugh. I have regular texting arguments with TRUMP-BRO at work

Me: *sends graph showing trump's abysmal approval rating*
Trump-Bro: Of course its not good. It's the number one goal of Democrats to delegitimatize his presidency
Me: Always blaming everyone else
TB: Exactly my point. What's happening right now is the biggest temper tantrum in in the history of the US. It's embarassing and sad that people have nothing better to do in their life (sic)

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