The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. - Page 778 - Politics and Economics

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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

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03-18-2017 , 06:21 PM

#19426

aoFrantic

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kypreanus

If you really think so, then you should have one of your guys debate Ben Shapiro.

loooooool good ol' 5'4 Ben. To people like Kyp (who didn't answer my first question for a very obvious reason), Ben Shapiro is the height of intellectualism. Ben Shapiro is insanely smart to the generation of "conservatives" online who got their education from right wing youtube videos.

03-18-2017 , 06:27 PM

#19427

adios

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aoFrantic

Ben Shapiro got his undergrad degree from UCLA and his law degree from Harvard Law School. That is the same law school Obama graduated from. Seems like to smart people to me.

03-18-2017 , 06:28 PM

#19428

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lew189

This is horse****. The article says nothing about Gorsuch's actual opinions about anything and you are suggesting it's content is the reason why he CANNOT be confirmed? Do better if that is your argument.

GORSCHUCH would use the SCOTUS to give Congress and 45* a blank check to continue to take voting rights away from African Americans:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...voters-w435890

Quote:

When Donald Trump claimed, "the election's going to be rigged," he wasn't entirely wrong. But the threat was not, as Trump warned, from Americans committing the crime of "voting many, many times." What's far more likely to undermine democracy in November is the culmination of a decade-long Republican effort to disenfranchise voters under the guise of battling voter fraud. The latest tool: Election officials in more than two dozen states have compiled lists of citizens whom they allege could be registered in more than one state – thus potentially able to cast multiple ballots – and eligible to be purged from the voter rolls.

The data is processed through a system called the Interstate Voter Registration Crosscheck Program, which is being promoted by a powerful Republican operative, and its lists of potential duplicate voters are kept confidential. But Rolling Stone obtained a portion of the list and the names of 1 million targeted voters. According to our analysis, the Crosscheck list disproportionately threatens solid Democratic constituencies: young, black, Hispanic and Asian-American voters – with some of the biggest possible purges underway in Ohio and North Carolina, two crucial swing states with tight Senate races.

America will vote for president in a country where it's easier to buy a gun than vote in many states

Like all weapons of vote suppression, Crosscheck is a response to the imaginary menace of mass voter fraud. In the mid-2000s, after the Florida-recount debacle, the Bush administration launched a five-year investigation into the allegedly rampant crime but found scant evidence of wrongdoing. Still, the GOP has perpetuated the myth in every national election since. Recently, North Carolina Board of Elections chief Kim Strach testified to her legislature that 35,750 voters are "registered in North Carolina and another state and voted in both in the 2012 general election." [Editor’s note: This quote was taken from the power point that accompanied Strach’s testimony. In a subsequent letter, she informed us that during her presentation she "stressed that we were not suggesting that 35,750 voters had committed any type of fraud. My testimony was that the data we received from the Crosscheck Program showed that in the 2012 general election, there were 35,750 people who voted in North Carolina whose first and last names and dates of birth matched persons who voted in the same election in another state.”] Yet despite hiring an ex-FBI agent to lead the hunt, the state has charged exactly zero double voters from the Crosscheck list. Nevertheless, tens of thousands face the loss of their ability to vote – all for the sake of preventing a crime that rarely happens. So far, Crosscheck has tagged an astonishing 7.2 million suspects, yet we found no more than four perpetrators who have been charged with double voting or deliberate double registration.

https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-vo...ion-fact-sheet

Quote:

Voter identification laws are a part of an ongoing strategy to roll back decades of progress on voting rights. Thirty-four states have identification requirements at the polls. Seven states have strict photo ID laws, under which voters must present one of a limited set of forms of government-issued photo ID in order to cast a regular ballot – no exceptions.

Voter ID laws deprive many voters of their right to vote, reduce participation, and stand in direct opposition to our country’s trend of including more Americans in the democratic process. Many Americans do not have one of the forms of identification states acceptable for voting. These voters are disproportionately low-income, racial and ethnic minorities, the elderly, and people with disabilities. Such voters more frequently have difficulty obtaining ID, because they cannot afford or cannot obtain the underlying documents that are a prerequisite to obtaining government-issued photo ID card.
VOTER ID LAWS DEPRIVE MANY AMERICANS OF THE RIGHT TO VOTE

Millions of Americans Lack ID. 11% of U.S. citizens – or more than 21 million Americans – do not have government-issued photo identification.1
Obtaining ID Costs Money. Even if ID is offered for free, voters must incur numerous costs (such as paying for birth certificates) to apply for a government-issued ID.
Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money, a significant expense for lower-income Americans. The combined cost of document fees, travel expenses and waiting time are estimated to range from $75 to $175.2
The travel required is often a major burden on people with disabilities, the elderly, or those in rural areas without access to a car or public transportation. In Texas, some people in rural areas must travel approximately 170 miles to reach the nearest ID office.3
Voter ID Laws Reduce Voter Turnout. A 2014 GAO study found that strict photo ID laws reduce turnout by 2-3 percentage points,4 which can translate into tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state.5

VOTER ID LAWS ARE DISCRIMINATORY

Minority voters disproportionately lack ID. Nationally, up to 25% of African-American citizens of voting age lack government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of whites.6
States exclude forms of ID in a discriminatory manner. Texas allows concealed weapons permits for voting, but does not accept student ID cards. Until its voter ID law was struck down, North Carolina prohibited public assistance IDs and state employee ID cards, which are disproportionately held by Black voters. And until recently, Wisconsin permitted active duty military ID cards, but prohibited Veterans Affairs ID cards for voting.
Voter ID laws are enforced in a discriminatory manner. A Caltech/MIT study found that minority voters are more frequently questioned about ID than are white voters.7
Voter ID laws reduce turnout among minority voters. Several studies, including a 2014 GAO study, have found that photo ID laws have a particularly depressive effect on turnout among racial minorities and other vulnerable groups, worsening the participation gap between voters of color and whites.8

VOTER ID REQUIREMENTS ARE A SOLUTION IN SEARCH OF A PROBLEM

In-person fraud is vanishingly rare. A recent study found that, since 2000, there were only 31 credible allegations of voter impersonation – the only type of fraud that photo IDs could prevent – during a period of time in which over 1 billion ballots were cast.9
Identified instances of “fraud” are honest mistakes. So-called cases of in-person impersonation voter “fraud” are almost always the product of an elections worker or a voter making an honest mistake, and that even these mistakes are extremely infrequent.10
Voter ID laws are a waste of taxpayer dollars. States incur sizeable costs when implementing voter ID laws, including the cost of educating the public, training poll workers, and providing IDs to voters.
Texas spent nearly $2 million on voter education and outreach efforts following passage of its Voter ID law.11
Indiana spent over $10 million to produce free ID cards between 2007 and 2010.12

03-18-2017 , 06:28 PM

#19429

aoFrantic

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy

Citation.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2993909/eat-the-poor/

Quote:

There's a terrible beauty in that moment when a politician accidentally tells the truth. Take Jason Chaffetz, a Republican congressman out in Utah. On March 7, 2017, he went on CNN to talk about Trump's replacement for the Affordable Care Act, but instead of bull****ting like he was supposed to — like he was trained to — he accidentally told the truth. "Americans have choices," he said, "and so maybe rather than getting that new iPhone that they just love […], maybe they should invest in their own health care." It was a monumentally stupid thing for him to say, and it was perfect, because it revealed the proposal's actual logic. That wasn't supposed to happen.

I'm not formally trained in policy, but I do know my little brother's 2016 hospital stay for acute liver explosion cost about five hundred thousand dollars, give or take a hundred grand. So I wrote to Mr. Chaffetz on Twitter, asking him the most prudent way my brother could sell his iPhone, which is worth about $200, maybe $300 if the screen got fixed. For some reason, Chaffetz did not answer.

Chaffetz eventually walked his iPhone comments back, but it was just to cover his own ass. The fact is that he's a docile (and spineless) Republican. He doesn't support the individual mandate of the Affordable Care Act, which means he doesn't support making health care compulsory and penalizing those who don't have it (which any economist will tell you means he doesn't actually support making health care available to everyone). Walking back the iPhone comment did not change his core belief that the poor should not have access to medical care if it represents even a shadow of a threat of a tax on the wealthy.

The Congressional Budget Office estimates that in 2018, if the American Health Care Act passes, 14 million people will lose their health insurance. Republicans have refuted this by calling the number too high, as if it somehow invalidates the estimate (though the White House’s figure was reportedly even higher). This holds no water. I mean, great, maybe 14 million people won't lose their health insurance. Maybe it's way lower. Maybe it's only 9 million. So? The point still stands. We're looking at millions of American citizens who won’t have care.

They won't have it because the tax penalty for not getting health insurance will be gone. Lots of people will bail right there, because several hundred dollars a month is a major strain, one a lot more pressing than the worry that one illness or accident could turn catastrophic. Republicans will then call this a choice, made by free citizens. Later, in private, if they think at all about this choice, the one made by free citizens, they will spout the same sort of bull**** Chaffetz said. "Guess they wanted iPhones more." This erases moral culpability, and is a strategy not unlike removing all the lifeguards from a public beach.

03-18-2017 , 06:29 PM

#19430

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy

Citation.

With pleasure.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cbo-c...umpcare-2017-3
https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...hcareact_0.pdf
http://www.vox.com/2016/3/2/11150320...alth-care-plan

03-18-2017 , 06:31 PM

#19431

aoFrantic

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Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

Ben Shapiro got his undergrad degree from UCLA and his law degree from Harvard Law School. That is the same law school Obama graduated from. Seems like to smart people to me.

If there is such a large left wing bias, why do people like Shapiro, Gorsuch and countless others keep coming out from these prestigious schools!?!

http://www.newsweek.com/neil-buchana...rsities-566205

03-18-2017 , 06:32 PM

#19432

kypreanus

banned

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 693

Quote:

Originally Posted by aoFrantic

That's a great argument to bring up his height.

He is a really good debater who will debate any leftist or democrat that matter. Too bad that that too often the safe space seeking leftists, including the teachers and administrators try to shut his speechers down, even though he encourages discussion and debate between the two camps.

Jordan B Peterson has also discussed the toxic climate, and the problems that come with the lack of debate between the two sides.

Oh yes I have attented university.

03-18-2017 , 06:33 PM

#19433

einbert

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If he's such a great debater why don't you just use his ideas in your forum posts?

03-18-2017 , 06:36 PM

#19434

Clovis8

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The right...

Sure I say and do racist things at every opportunity but the real bad people are the ones who call me a racist.

Sure my political party is following the facist playbook with respect to media relations, oppression of minorities, xenophobia, nationalism and social programs but the real bad people are the ones who call its leader a nazi.

SJWs are the worst. All they care about is what people say or the words they use not what people actually do. What really matters is actions not mean words.

03-18-2017 , 06:36 PM

#19435

aoFrantic

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Kyp, in your personal experience, in what institutional ways was your university overwhelmingly left wing? Why do you think people like Shapiro excelled at UCLA and Harvard despite their opinions?

I mean, you can show Kyp is wrong through thousands of links (it's been done in thread after thread). But, that's the entire point. He's not arguing in good faith. That's why he's been banned over and over. On the bright side, he invented the word "speechers."

I'd also like to point out the "safe space seeking leftists" have boycotted fewer things over the last decade than Trump supporters have over the past three months.

03-18-2017 , 06:40 PM

#19436

Clovis8

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It's so funny watching the right twist over the fact that universities are left wing when it's painfully obvious why this is so. Universities are places of fact, science and exploration of how the world actually works, not how we wish it worked.

Academia is mostly left wing because left wing politics much more often reflect reason and how the world actually works where as right wing politics is rooted in anti-reason and nostalgia for social hierarchies doomed to extinction.

03-18-2017 , 06:40 PM

#19437

Nicholasp27

27th level thinker

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 84,607

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy

Citation.

AHCA
Trump's Budget proposal

03-18-2017 , 06:41 PM

#19438

kypreanus

banned

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 693

Quote:

Originally Posted by aoFrantic

Ben Shapiro actully wrote a book on the leftist brainwashing at Universities. He also did a book on Hollywood, and since he is jewish, and back then they didnt know his political stance, just thought he is a leftist like most jews, they openly admitted that they discriminate against conservatives in Hollywood.

If you happen to become a political commentator like Ben has, it's pretty useful to see how the indoctrination process works.

https://www.amazon.com/Ben-Shapiro/e/B001JPCHPQ

03-18-2017 , 06:42 PM

#19439

aoFrantic

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When you have a great book, you have to get an amazing thinker like David Limbaugh to do the foreward. Nothing says intellectualism like that. I will notice that again, you didn't answer my question but instead plugged a book but included no data or quotes from it...just that it exists? What the **** is even the point of that?

From my newsweek link, the closing paragraph cuts right to your terrible argument.

Quote:

Nonetheless, we are talking about a process through which young people are trying to figure out how to proceed in a world in which they are asked to think critically, to be open-minded but not gullible, and to try to seek knowledge honestly. I am never surprised when things do not play out as well as I would like.

In the end, however, we need to ask why stories like this catch fire with even the non–Fox News press. The answer is that right-wingers in this country have succeeded in convincing liberal-leaning news outlets that students and their professors are closed-minded, based on a series of distorted anecdotes and the observation that conservative views are not as popular on campuses as liberal views currently are.

If there is evidence to support such an argument, let it be presented for inspection. As it stands, these anecdotes about supposedly biased professors and closed-minded students do not withstand scrutiny and do not prove what they are said to prove. But their constant repetition certainly serves the purposes of those who wish to attack the legitimacy of American universities.

03-18-2017 , 06:44 PM

#19440

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kypreanus

Dude, tell the truth. You're Ben Shapiro.

03-18-2017 , 06:45 PM

#19441

Clovis8

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One of the rights "non-racists" just posted "thought he was a leftist like most Jews" in this very thread.

03-18-2017 , 06:46 PM

#19442

BroadwaySushy

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 3,237

Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

With pleasure.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cbo-c...umpcare-2017-3
https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...hcareact_0.pdf
http://www.vox.com/2016/3/2/11150320...alth-care-plan

Sorry, but none of those links provide any proof of your assertion whatsoever.

Please provide links to Republicans specifically advocating what you said.

03-18-2017 , 06:47 PM

#19443

kypreanus

banned

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 693

Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

With pleasure.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cbo-c...umpcare-2017-3
https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...hcareact_0.pdf
http://www.vox.com/2016/3/2/11150320...alth-care-plan

These links don't represent the fact you claimed, and if you are a spokesperson for democrats they should really pick better.

03-18-2017 , 06:47 PM

#19444

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy

Sorry, but none of those links provide any proof of your assertion whatsoever.

Please provide links to Republicans specifically advocating what you said.

https://twitter.com/ToddBohannon/sta...31632680812545

https://twitter.com/DomenicoNPR/stat...58167216877571

03-18-2017 , 06:48 PM

#19445

fuluck414

veteran

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,281

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypreanus

If you really think so, then you should have one of your guys debate Ben Shapiro.

****, I'll debate Shapiro. I barely went to college.

03-18-2017 , 06:48 PM

#19446

aoFrantic

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I don't get the stupidity of the "brainwashing" points of the really, really dumb people on the right. The majority of people who go to University don't care about politics, don't take any courses that get political and aren't political themselves. As my previous link pointed out, the thing professors are most worried about is apathy. They're concerned people actually attend class and actually do assignments. Nobody has the time nor effort to brainwash a nursing student into modern liberal policies. It's just astoundingly stupid on it's face.

03-18-2017 , 06:48 PM

#19447

Clovis8

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kypreanus

These links don't represent the fact you claimed, and if you are a spokesperson for democrats they should really pick better.

We all got together and voted einbert our spokesperson cause that's how it works.

03-18-2017 , 06:49 PM

#19448

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aoFrantic

This is totally 100% true. And plenty of conservative people are in universities all over the place. They're more likely to major in business or engineering or I.T. than Political Science though.

03-18-2017 , 06:50 PM

#19449

Clovis8

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aoFrantic

Quote:

Stupid on it's face

The Alt-rights motto.

03-18-2017 , 06:50 PM

#19450

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy

Sorry, but none of those links provide any proof of your assertion whatsoever.

Please provide links to Republicans specifically advocating what you said.

I stand by all of my citations. Let me reiterate my original point for those just joining us:

Nazis believed that killing off the old, the sick, the weak, the poor, and minorities would make society and humanity and Germany stronger in the long run. They also believed it would save money and be a more efficient system.

Republicans believe that killing off the old, the sick, the weak, the poor, and minorities will make society and humanity and America stronger in the long run. They also believe it would save money and be a more efficient system.

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