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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

01-26-2017 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by True North
This is fine

It's a bureaucrats revolution.
01-26-2017 , 12:46 PM
Payback for Benghazi?
01-26-2017 , 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
But if you remove the theatrics and histrionics and rhetoric and temperament stuff, and you shouldn't, but if you did -- so far it seems like a pretty standard clown show GOP administration. Make the Hyde Amendment permanent, prioritize re-writing regulations to favor whatever the extraction industries want, re-institute torture. One of the things to bear in mind about the Modern GOP is that like all ****ing 16 of those jokers who ran for President were unanimous about torture, and trying to outdo each other in the debates about who would brutalize Muslims more.

Trump is bad but let's not lose sight of that fact tons of the actual bad stuff, so far, is just standard fare GOP policies. I don't consider that hopeful in the least, I just point it out to note that Trump versus a league average GOP President would be much the same on the merits, but with a smoother and more politically savvy veneer. If we find this stuff truly galling, and you should, and Trump self-immolates, gets impeached, quits, dies of a heart attack, or whatever, I hope that we don't lose sight of the fact that the personage of Trump is only part of the problem here, and there's a whole political movement and tons of would-be Trumps with a more politically graceful tact waiting out there.
I think in some ways, Trump being in office is actually a good thing. Obviously it's bad for many of the reasons that have been mentioned repeatedly. But think about it for a second. I don't think we would have had this kind of response if a professional politician like Ted Cruz got in and proposed to do everything Trump has. They'd do a lot of the same GOP stuff but the optics would be done in such a way that protests would be minimal and outcry wouldn't be as extreme and rampant across not just the general population but the media as well. It would be done quietly and swept under the rug. We would see the same incompetence in line for administration positions but there'd be less outcry because it's a professional politician doing this and since he is a pro the general population would assume that he knows what he's doing.

We are certainly on the brink of oblivion here as a democratic society but Trump is the wake up call we need. The rug of democracy has been pulled further and further away from us for years by professional politicians without anybody really noticing. That slow, insidious erosion has now become a buffoon trying to rip the rug out completely. This sharp, unexpected movement has awoken the people on top of it and now we're trying to maintain our balance and keep it in place. Dubya pulled harder than his predecessors when he signed The Patriot Act and we conceded. Now Trump is pulling even harder and people are finally starting to wake up. All we have left as a country is how we respond to this crisis. We either give in and take a huge step towards a dictatorship or stand our ground for the sake of democratic values.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
In fairness, the joke remains on us normals. Almost on Day 1, Hour 1 of the transition, right after Trump was signaling guys like Priebus would be in power and Paul Ryan and Mike Pence would set the agenda, some short-sighted liberals started cackling things like LOL, drain the swamp?! To which the Trumpkins all just said lol, we just mean get rid of Barack Obama and his liberal ilk and other criminal Democrats like the Clintons, you know, the swamp. Your fault if you thought that meant generic populism, we knew what he meant all along.

So remember some of these dudes are just flat out authoritarian bootlickers, so whatever Trump does is retroactively whatever he meant, even if he said the opposite in plain English ("So what if US taxpayers foot the bill for the wall? When Trump said Mexico would pay for it, he just meant they will pay for their years of sending their criminal layabouts to America, and they will! No more free lunch!").
There must be some instinctual attraction to authoritative figures. When we have leaders like that, we no longer have to think for ourselves and answer pesky questions that may not have easy answers. That's partially why religion is so popular throughout the world: if offers easy answers to difficult questions so we don't have to work hard.

Quote:
And then another set of Trumpkins, and there's overlap with the "whatever Daddy said is right" crowd -- but another set are just hardcore right-wing angry racists who just hate browns and are happy to simply get signaling and sabre-rattling that America is about to lock-down and kick the illegals to the curb, or will happily take stop-and-frisk-for-documents or border dronez or whatever other clever bait and switch thing instead of an actual wall. A figurative wall.

It's trite but they take him seriously, not literally. ****, they're happy if he's just trolling liberals, cosmopolitan elites, whatever. Remember for tons of these people their real, overriding interest in politics is that they're miserable idiots enamored with Pepe and white identity and making liberals mad and sad, and no amount of Trump contradicting himself or failing to live up to his promises is going to bother them that much. Promises, dignity, honoring your words, having a goal and an outcome and wanting to see it come to fruition? That's for normals. Many Trumpkins aspire to something else and aren't going to be rattled by the Orange One being proven a liar, inept, ineffective, or anything like that. Most of them appear, as best I can tell, to be nursing wounds from some time they think a liberal sneered at them or called them a racist on the internet or stewing over how none of the girls in high school wanted to **** them or whatever makes these fruitcakes tick and they are not THAT interested in the wall, strictly speaking.
The overarching theme that pervades every Trump supporter is "**** liberals!" That is the goal and anything done to anger liberals is justified regardless of illegality or immorality.

History is irrelevant. Precedence is irrelevant. Feasibility, viability, experience, intelligence, common sense are all completely unimportant. Trump said "**** liberals!" louder, more aggressively, and in more ways than everybody else and so he won. People didn't want an intelligent person who uses multi-syllabic words to run the country. They wanted BillyJoe from the watering hole in Who-gives-a-****, Mississippi who gets hammered on Natty Light everyday while telling the bartender what he'd do to brown people if he were the President as he jerks off the handgun hanging from his hip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eurodp
I think that the amount of just terribleness in the last weeks is insane. It makes it hard to really get a cohesive argument against one thing before 5 minutes later another pops up.
It's scary that 24-hour media networks don't have the time to keep up with everything that's going on. It's the bed of nails theory at work.

Quote:
The overarching idea though appears to be who cares about logic and evidence on the issues and an approach to things that make people feel that something is being done.
Bingo. Trump is a salesman before anything else. He didn't sell solutions when running. He still doesn't sell solutions. He sells feelings. He sells the illusion that something will be done. The wall and repealing Obamacare will look as though they're happening but they never will. There'll be hitches along the way that make those things essentially impossible. I think Trump even knows that they won't get done but he gets so much love from his base that he just keeps repeating it for the adulation.
01-26-2017 , 12:52 PM
01-26-2017 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
It's a bureaucrats revolution.
Pretty sure it's a revolution when you take over the government. Resigning from it is something else.
01-26-2017 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
How do budgets work?

Sizzler may be off on his estimates but zero chance a working and completed wall is finished for close to 20 billion dollars.
I saw well researched estimates that the wall would cost $10.6 Billion.
01-26-2017 , 01:03 PM
Mexican President cancels visit to D.C.

Expect a lot of this unless from Philippines, Syria, Iran or Russia. Trump has the very best diplomacy.
01-26-2017 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedOak
I saw well researched estimates that the wall would cost $10.6 Billion.
Unless the scope of the wall is something other than promised then no. Not to mention all giant construction projects have estimates and most of the time they end up low.

It's pretty easy to built this magic wall cost any amount by literally stopping to build it whenever you choose. Others have noted there are all sorts of logistical problems that people have not had to deal with and even if they tried to predict them all they will be wrong on some of them.

But I am sure Trump can build us an affordable border wall that is EFFECTIVE.
01-26-2017 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
Mexican President cancels visit to D.C.

Expect a lot of this unless from Philippines, Syria, Iran or Russia. Trump has the very best diplomacy.
Trump will just sit back and watch it happen. These countries are all going to try and burn him out on these issues such as tariffs and what not. Inevitably though Trump knows they're like the cutoff rich kid. Eventually he's going to come crawling back. These countries are going to try and do this for 3 plus years in hopes Trump will lose the 2020 election but I'm not sold many of them can hold out that long. Mexico in all likelihood cannot.
01-26-2017 , 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
None of this **** matters.

Then Trump will drum up support for armed guards to shoot on sight. That is already immensely popular with his base.

.
Nah, he will favor robot machine guns that shoot anything that moves.
01-26-2017 , 01:15 PM
This is an interesting article about how they might go about building a wall and the challenges they might face.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/an-engin...o-implausible/
01-26-2017 , 01:15 PM
I think the Doomsday Clock people are gonna have to come out and give us another update.
01-26-2017 , 01:17 PM
Trump could probably slowly back off the wall idea. I think if he otherwise effectively secures the borders with other measures that aren't too absurd and the economy continues improving that most of his supporters will forgive him over no wall.
01-26-2017 , 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoltinJake
Some of these have already been posted ITT, but good Reddit post here showing recent Trump tweets that were clearly made because of what he was watching on TV:
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co...voter/dcvuzsp/
lol'd hard at "I knew you wouldn't bomb Denmark, little bitch president"
01-26-2017 , 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTD
This move towards restricting independent science studies etc reminds me of the original "V" series many years ago. As I recall, the evil aliens had terrible plans for Earthlings, and were worried that scientists may suss them out. So, they bashed "scientists" about in the media - saying that they had not released cancer cures due to nice research grants etc. I can't recall exactly what happened but I don't think it ended well.
The producers modeled the aliens' actions on the demonisation of Jews in the Third Reich.
01-26-2017 , 01:23 PM
Re the wall, surely it's very likely that it will be built - very nice and tall/strong/pretty in some places, barely a fence in others - and there will be a political agreement with Mexico where they pay some of the cost, but in a way that looks like much more when presented on Fox etc.
01-26-2017 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-In Flynn
The producers modeled the aliens' actions on the demonisation of Jews in the Third Reich.
Wow, I really had no idea
01-26-2017 , 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
Mexican President cancels visit to D.C.

Expect a lot of this unless from Philippines, Syria, Iran or Russia. Trump has the very best diplomacy.
I am guessing this is a reaction to Trump's statement that unless he is prepared to pay for the wall, he shouldn't come to Washington.....

British PM says hello
01-26-2017 , 01:28 PM
Is the Wall going to go through the Tohono O'Odham Nation? Is it going to go through Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument? Could Trump survive more than 30 seconds alone in the Sonoran Desert?
01-26-2017 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by np1235711
I am guessing this is a reaction to Trump's statement that unless he is prepared to pay for the wall, he shouldn't come to Washington.....

British PM says hello
The Maybot knows not what she says.
01-26-2017 , 01:31 PM
Might as well cancel meetings with Mexico if the State Dept senior leadership isn't there to organize them.
01-26-2017 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Uh, are we sure they resigned of their own volition and it wasn't just a case where Trump accepted all of the resignations they were obligated to have on file?
That seems worse.
01-26-2017 , 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurodp
The whole wall thing just gets me so pissed....we already have a fence! Repeal and replace?? Net immigration for many years now from Mexico has been 0 or more people leaving than coming in.

I think that the amount of just terribleness in the last weeks is insane. It makes it hard to really get a cohesive argument against one thing before 5 minutes later another pops up. The overarching idea though appears to be who cares about logic and evidence on the issues and an approach to things that make people feel that something is being done. It seems like for too many Obama wasn't enough of a chest thumper.
I overheard some clown GOP rep on CNN this morning saying that the reason the bolded is true is because NAFTA shipping all our jerbs to Mexico lol
01-26-2017 , 01:34 PM
In before profit connection from wall construction to Trump is revealed (and ignored).
01-26-2017 , 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
That seems worse.
I'm not actually sure which case is worse.

      
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