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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

12-20-2018 , 11:29 AM

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12-20-2018 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
And the POTUS is waaaaaaaay to powerful and congress should stop letting the them ignore the War Powers Resolution.
Trump unilaterally decides to remove troops.

Microbet: This is great because the POTUS currently has too much power regarding engagement decisions.

Can't really say I'm following the logic there.
12-20-2018 , 11:41 AM
Letting the experts march us off to another multi-decade nation-building exercise worked really well for my generation and my parents. Time for the post-Millenial kids to suit up for Syria. They’re almost defeated, victory is just around the corner!
12-20-2018 , 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Is it?



I'm perfectly fine with doing a capital strike on Laura Ingraham's, or Tucker Carlson's, television shows. Who isn't? Why does that make Nate/Glenn correct to shun all "censorship" (lol) of this nature?

And like, this is not the complaint Nate/Glenn are making, at all:



Sorry bobman, I think this is a Bad Post.
This is the key line from Bruenig's piece:

Quote:
Remember: Capital is capital; it is not your friend. Conservatives are learning this the hard way, and those on the left shouldn’t forget it, even when companies happen to decide the best bet is the morally correct one.
The point being made here is that big companies have the de facto ability to police certain kinds of speech through boycotts or capital strikes or whatever you want to call it. That is, by and large, an ability we've chosen to deny our regular, democratically-ish-elected government. If the police dragged Tucker off to jail for being a racist, I think most people would still at least be a little concerned. (I understand that there's a hot new meme summarizing the work of Karl Popper trending that maybe says otherwise, but put that to one side for the moment.) It's at least worth considering whether it is a good thing that this power, which we think is too dangerous for the government to be trusted with, is being wielded by a bunch of big companies, especially if your ideological position is that big companies are very bad. There are plenty of valid reasons to say that this is fine and good. For example, you might believe that the reason for free speech protection is that you don't want the government to entrench itself by suppressing criticism, so it's fine for other actors to have that type of power, since they aren't conflicted. (Although, if you think big business is in bed with government and capital needs to be ejected from its hegemonic position in society, this should maybe be less persuasive?) (Kind of a sidebar, but an interesting thought experiment that was clarifying for me about these types of questions: link.) The least good reason to be OK with this is that the particular person feeling the brunt of corporate power happens to actually be bad.
12-20-2018 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Alex.
Trump unilaterally decides to remove troops.

Microbet: This is great because the POTUS currently has too much power regarding engagement decisions.

Can't really say I'm following the logic there.
Lol. The WPR was intended to give the POTUS 60 days to do something and then pull out without Congress in case of an urgent need. That's not unreasonable, though if I were the rest of the world I would certainly prefer if the POTUS could not single handedly ever intervene abroad.

But generally I think POTUS should have more authority to stop killing people than to start killing people. How's that logic?
12-20-2018 , 11:53 AM
We don't want corporations to be political, therefore they should continue to advertise on extremely biased, borderline fraudulent, political TV shows. It's complete nonsense.
12-20-2018 , 11:54 AM
"Progressives" attacking trump to the right, beautiful.

RESIST and bomb Syria!
12-20-2018 , 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
But generally I think POTUS should have more authority to stop killing people than to start killing people. How's that logic?
Not to sound like a neo-con, but once you've already decided to enter a conflict, made agreements, provided support to allies, etc, removing yourself on a whim could easily lead to more innocent people getting killed rather than less, especially when your reasons for doing so aren't altruistic but rather appeasement of other evil factions involved.

Intent and process matter.
12-20-2018 , 12:10 PM
You sound exactly like a neocon. And not only do you want troops in Syria, you know who is commanding those troops right? You don't just want American troops in Syria. You want American troops under the command of Trump in Syria. And, you have faith that they will be doing good.

Last edited by microbet; 12-20-2018 at 12:16 PM.
12-20-2018 , 12:14 PM
Trump AG pick, Ol' Billy Barr, surprisingly wrote a memo back in June, unsolicited, to the DOJ criticizing the Russia Probe.
12-20-2018 , 12:16 PM
Troops aren't leaving anyway, and even if some are there'll still be thousands of people from places like Blackwater there.
12-20-2018 , 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andre006
"Progressives" attacking trump to the right, beautiful.

RESIST and bomb Syria!
“Progressives” backing the single worst, most right wing, and least informed president of all time.
12-20-2018 , 12:17 PM
I want decisions made about the use of US military forces to be reasoned and made by people who know what they are doing, not by imbeciles like Trump. Removing troops on a whim is just as bad as deploying troops on a whim and rewarding Trump for this move is equivalent to rewarding a someone for picking a random number correctly.
12-20-2018 , 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Alex.
Not to sound like a neo-con, but once you've already decided to enter a conflict, made agreements, provided support to allies, etc, removing yourself on a whim could easily lead to more innocent people getting killed rather than less, especially when your reasons for doing so aren't altruistic but rather appeasement of other evil factions involved.

Intent and process matter.
You mean like Cambodia and Irak?

How about Hillary in Libya?

Maybe Trump should put an embargo on medications and kill half a million kids like old cigar enthusiast Bill.

Poutin saved Syria and props to Trump for not doubling down on this madness.
12-20-2018 , 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
You sound exactly like a neocon. And not only do you want troops in Syria, you know who is commanding those troops right? You don't just want American troops in Syria you want American troops under the command of trump in Syria. And, you have faith that they will be doing good.
No to all of those obviously. However, I also don't want Trump unilaterally breaking our agreements and backstabbing our allies. It's possible to be opposed to two bad but also mutually exclusive things at once!
12-20-2018 , 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Alex.
Not to sound like a neo-con, but once you've already decided to enter a conflict, made agreements, provided support to allies, etc, removing yourself on a whim could easily lead to more innocent people getting killed rather than less, especially when your reasons for doing so aren't altruistic but rather appeasement of other evil factions involved.

Intent and process matter.
Obviously this.

The US should have never gone into Syria (or the Middle East as whole for that matter) but a second bad decision doesn’t make the first one better.
12-20-2018 , 12:19 PM
centrist #Resistance Dems are the worst
12-20-2018 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerowo
I want decisions made about the use of US military forces to be reasoned and made by people who know what they are doing, not by imbeciles like Trump. Removing troops on a whim is just as bad as deploying troops on a whim and rewarding Trump for this move is equivalent to rewarding a someone for picking a random number correctly.
Exactly.
12-20-2018 , 12:22 PM
Once again, the US is going to leave the Kurds out to dry. I'm far from a neocon and disagree with America's self appointed role of global police force, however this is an impulsive decisions that will likely lead to their slaughter.
12-20-2018 , 12:24 PM
Yes, let's listen to the same military generals that have had us 18 years in Afghanistan in a war we have now lost, as Taliban control over half the country and we are actively negotiating with them to keep one or two military bases and turn everything back over to them. Or in Iraq, where all the Iraqi police and military are just exterrorists who are willing to change sides because they get paid slightly better, but will go right back to terrorism if that stops. The same generals who get rid of Gaddafi and have turned Libya into a dystopian hellhole that is an excellent breeding ground for terrorists. Or the generals who are refueling and providing strategy to the Saudis so they can commit genocide in Yemen.

We will be in Syria for decades if the generals got there way, because the war is unwinnable.
12-20-2018 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
centrist #Resistance Dems are the worst
The far left snap backing Trump, after years of trashing him, because his button mashing accidentally landed on something, which on the surface they like, is the worst.
12-20-2018 , 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andre006
"Progressives" attacking trump to the right, beautiful.

RESIST and bomb Syria!


Obv the nuance is too much for you



Clearly bombing Syria into oblivion isn’t a great strategy. But the counter strategy of


The president committing treason by abdicating Syria for Russia


Is worse
12-20-2018 , 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsedToBeGood
Yes, let's listen to the same military generals that have had us 18 years in Afghanistan in a war we have now lost, as Taliban control over half the country and we are actively negotiating with them to keep one or two military bases and turn everything back over to them. Or in Iraq, where all the Iraqi police and military are just exterrorists who are willing to change sides because they get paid slightly better, but will go right back to terrorism if that stops. The same generals who get rid of Gaddafi and have turned Libya into a dystopian hellhole that is an excellent breeding ground for terrorists. Or the generals who are refueling and providing strategy to the Saudis so they can commit genocide in Yemen.

We will be in Syria for decades if the generals got there way, because the war is unwinnable.
Let’s listen to Trump....
12-20-2018 , 12:27 PM
Trump removes all sanctions on Russian aluminum yet still has tariffs on CDN steel. Putin's Puppet .

Well at least ISIS is defeated
12-20-2018 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kre8tive
Once again, the US is going to leave the Kurds out to dry. I'm far from a neocon and disagree with America's self appointed role of global police force, however this is an impulsive decisions that will likely lead to their slaughter.
Except this time you haven't left a vacuum behind you thanks to Vladimir.

      
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