This is a big mistake I see liberals still making all the time, even after this election. You can't challenge right wingers on hypocrisy, or even on logic. They don't care. The whole point of the talking points is to justify the actions, not the other way around, it literally doesn't matter to them what they are justifying but just the fact that Trump did it.

Please start a thread in economics and lay this all out. I want to learn.

The best example of this was when they were coming up with some very creative "arguments" to defend the Electoral College right after the election. They are laughing their asses off as they type this stuff, don't believe that they believe it for a second. You're wasting your time challenging them on logic or hypocrisy.

Republicans hate spending until they are in charge then spend like drunken sailors.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/an-o...e-hardly-chart

He fixed everything already. That's why he has so much time to cry about the media.

Anyone who has taken even econ 1000 knows this is all false.

So you are confirming you have absolutely no experience or knowledge regarding macroeconomics.

Its been about a 10% gain over 3 months. Hardly a big sample size and at a growth rate that has been reached quite a few times during Obama years.

Here is a month by month breakdown of S&P.
https://ycharts.com/indicators/sp_500_monthly_return

Oh don't get me wrong, it's not a challenge against hornbug. At most he'll just say no, and at the least he'll go on about trips to India costs millions and cookies costing 40 bucks. I'm just curious where he'll fall down on the spectrum of answers. Ultimately, like you imply, it doesn't matter what hornbug thinks of President Obama anymore because an opinion about Obama isn't politically salient.

I'd actually be curious where lay Replicans think of getting rid of PBS and the like. AFAIK the enjoyment of Sesame Street and PBS programming is pretty universal even if it's not the most politically excitable thing, except among the free market true believers who think Amazon Studios could do it better or whatever.

The right doesn't care about hypocrisy or logic guys. I'll give you a great example.

Hornbug,

How do you feel about the 12 women who corroborated Trump's confession of sexual assault after the Anderson Cooper debate?

Oh, the S&P or DJIA has lagged behind much of the rest of the world's stock markets since the election.

Rally starts in 40 minutes...

Trump overall #'s appear to still be around in the mid 40's. People gotta stop cherry picking the lowest #'d polls.

I understand why organizers and protesters dont want to hand anyone over to the police. They break a few windows, trump is breaking the country. But this is an image game. If most protesters are seen to be working with police it means the white house has a harder time tying violent protesters with peaceful ones. I worry if its not done things could get ugly and trump will use them to make protesters the #2 enemy after the media.

you guys are missing the point.


When will Repubs turn on Trump?


They won't if the economy continues to get stronger.


Beyond that you are just derailing the discussion. I'm not interested in the derail.

anything else than rasmussen to argue this?

there doesnt seem to be many polls at all.

Most recent was 38% afaik

I doubt people here are doing this and just posting any they see.

FALSE POLLS

This post is so incredibly revealing.

Step one: trump will win if the economy is strong
Step two: how will we measure the economy?
Step three: well of course however we need to to show it is strong.

Hornbug is the current unemployment rate in the mid 40s as Trump thought a couple months ago or have those 100 million people found work in January?

I think when he gets criminal charges against him which may happen fairly soon the Republican party will jump ship very quickly regardless of polling numbers or the strength of the economy

people replying to hornbug are making the classic mistake of attempting to hold an intelligent conversation with a Trump supporter. Sad!

Every metric that got better under Obama that trump and hornbug said was a lie or wasn't a good measure is now being used to show how strong it is, despite trump not having one economic policy instituted.

What part did debates, in the public-space sense we're discussing here, play in the Civil War? Honest question.

In-person discussion and airing of views - some of which might be called 'debate', though most of it not - can be effective. Harvey Milk's observations on straight voting patterns when the voter knows they know a gay person comes to mind. Social issues, so far as I'm aware, have rarely, if ever, been influenced to any great extent by public debates. I'll want some concrete examples if you're going to keep leaning on this.

We need to win them over into showing up. In 2016 we tried Principled Debate. Worked like a charm, because this is the real world and charms don't ****ing work.

And what I mean is that we could, conceivably, with a lot of effort, studiously avoid ever reinforcing Trump supporters' narratives. Will they care? No, ldo they'll circulate fake news claiming we're reinforcing them anyway - y'know, like they already do. They didn't get where they are now because someone reasoned them into that position. They're not going to be reasoned out of it. We only play into their hands by allowing their purported concerns to define the terms on which we engage them.

lol @ McCain saying "I hate you especially," to Chuck Todd. Wtf?