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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

02-17-2017 , 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
Regardless of any views on Trump or his policies, will people at least admit that the campaign against him is transparent to the point of being embrarrassing?
Yes, the GOP campaign against him has been pathetically weak and embarrassingly unpatriotic.
02-17-2017 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
Your sober reminder for today. So far, Trump is the most popular President to Republicans in a long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayo


GOP voters, man.
sigh, both are so telling of the state of affairs.
02-17-2017 , 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO2.0
What do you mean by transparent? It is clear that the campaign against Trump is because people think Trump is dangerously incompetent. Yes that is clear.
Those D-Day landings were such a transparent campaign against hitler. So obvious that they were trying to remove him from power. Just embarrassing.
02-17-2017 , 10:30 AM
David Brooks op-ed this morning

Quote:
There are no longer moral arbiters in Congress like Howard Baker and Sam Ervin to lead a resignation or impeachment process. There is no longer a single media establishment that shapes how the country sees the president. This is no longer a country in which everybody experiences the same reality.

Everything about Trump that appalls 65 percent of America strengthens him with the other 35 percent, and he can ride that group for a while. Even after these horrible four weeks, Republicans on Capitol Hill are not close to abandoning their man.

The likelihood is this: We’re going to have an administration that has morally and politically collapsed, without actually going away.
02-17-2017 , 10:32 AM
02-17-2017 , 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
Regardless of any views on Trump or his policies, will people at least admit that the campaign against him is transparent to the point of being embrarrassing?
I agree that the campaign against him is very transparent. We dont hide that we think his incompetemce, racism, conflicts of interest and lack of knowledge and decision making skills make him unfit for office. How is it embarrasing to want to have someone fired who clearly sucks at his job?

Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk
02-17-2017 , 10:35 AM
Gentle reminder that either Harold or Kumar would be a million times better President than Trump.
02-17-2017 , 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
Your sober reminder for today. So far, Trump is the most popular President to Republicans in a long time.

I wonder how meaningful this data is given the steep decline in Party ID. In 2004 (first data point I could quickly find) Republican party ID was at 48 percent and in January 17 it was 28 percent. It seems that if you don't like Trump you stop identifying as Republican as opposed to voicing your disapproval. http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/Party-Affiliation.aspx
02-17-2017 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namath12
lol of course you did pogger
Don't think that those views are reflective of us. He's rightfully getting blasted over there too.
02-17-2017 , 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlelou
I wonder how meaningful this data is given the steep decline in Party ID. In 2004 (first data point I could quickly find) Republican party ID was at 48 percent and in January 17 it was 28 percent. It seems that if you don't like Trump you stop identifying as Republican as opposed to voicing your disapproval. http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/Party-Affiliation.aspx
Yeah party approval doesn't mean as much anymore.

There are like 20% of the population that call themselves independents but lean to the GOP, how they feel about Trump would give us a better picture.

He did significantly worse than Romney amongst upper income voters, so I think a lot of those people are in that 20% that don't approve.
02-17-2017 , 10:42 AM
this white house would be hilarious if it were a sitcom and not a real thing. i'd watch.
02-17-2017 , 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Gentle reminder that either Harold or Kumar would be a million times better President than Trump.
slightly racist here, but you really can't tell if that would be Harold or Kumar, in a Harold and Kumar movie?
02-17-2017 , 10:47 AM
They had a piece on the BBC website that looked at some Trump supporters and the group that they are part of. One couple explained about the evil of fake news, and how important it is to be educated etc when considering what is fake. When pressed about where they get their info from they mentioned Breitbart, some patriot website and Facebook/Twitter. Slightly depressing really.
02-17-2017 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlelou
I wonder how meaningful this data is given the steep decline in Party ID. In 2004 (first data point I could quickly find) Republican party ID was at 48 percent and in January 17 it was 28 percent. It seems that if you don't like Trump you stop identifying as Republican as opposed to voicing your disapproval. http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/Party-Affiliation.aspx
They count Republican and Democrat leaning independents in their party categories. Presumably that picks up some amount of those who disassociate with a party because of the current event of the day but still incline towards one, but it wouldn't pick up those who who fully drop out.

Here are two specific questions they ask to come up with the Party and leaning Party questions
Quote:
ASK ALL:
PARTY In politics TODAY, do you consider yourself a Republican, Democrat, or independent?
1 Republican
2 Democrat
3 Independent
4 No preference (VOL.)
5 Other party (VOL.)
9 Don't know/Refused (VOL.)
ASK IF INDEP/NO PREF/OTHER/DK/REF (PARTY=3,4,5,9):
PARTYLN As of today do you lean more to the Republican Party or more to the Democratic
Party?
1 Republican
2 Democrat
9 Other/Don't know/Refused (VOL.)

Last edited by Huehuecoyotl; 02-17-2017 at 11:01 AM.
02-17-2017 , 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BooLoo
this white house would be hilarious if it were a sitcom and not a real thing. i'd watch.
Good idea. Someone should be working on a pilot right now. That would tilt Trump even more.

But on a different note, I wonder how much the secret service is liking this idea of a Trump rally this weekend. Not very much I suspect. Trump loves campaigning so much more than governing.
02-17-2017 , 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV Life
I live in Central Florida. I'm thinking about attending rallies and seeing what's going on. I'm a 6'4" white dude that weighs 300 lbs. Stick a MAGA hat on me and no way anyone thinks I'm a libtard. I'll even wear jorts if needed. Not sure how to go about this. Trump loves him some Florida so I think a lot of action will be here. Would love to shoot tape and record conversations and create a blog or give content to bigger media.
Dress like you are going to play a round of golf and you'll be fine. No need for a MAGA hat, imo
02-17-2017 , 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ymmv
Literally any liberal in congress or senate would be better. I guess your statement is correct to the extent that CDL's paradigm liberal is an uneducated black kid from chicago who isn't fit to run the country.. But really anyone with a hint of experience in government would be better than trump. Even if they are super-lefty!
We are talking about the whole population (though I am unclear if people like us, some of which are not 35 years old, would be in that conversation or just olds as people over 35 actually skew more conservative than the voting public).

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
What's a random liberal do? Well, I'd ask Obama for some help. I'm sure the least he'd do is help you find people to help. If a random Republican asks W, well, that's not great, but it's still a lot better than what we have now.
True, but some would just ask their friends and other people they trust who would be equally uneducated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
I'm arguing with nitwits elsewhere that all presidents lie and trump is no harm no foul with his lies. lol it's such amazing denial.
yea. This is what prompted that comment last night and is an insight into how they think. These people literally cannot talk about Trump. All they can do is talk about Hillary. This is a guy who liked Obama, said he was going to miss Obama and Biden as recently as Inauguration Day, and was the biggest Bernie supporter I interacted with regularly irl yet he is still this far gone.

He used "Hillary," "she," and "her" 16 times below and "Trump," "he," and "him" only 5 times.

Quote:
Me: so if he lies why is this not something he should absolutely be pressed on consistently?
lies of this scope are worht constant pressure
him: which scope
i don't even know what we're tlaking about anymore
all politicians lie
some more than others
hillary lies all the damn time
trump too
nothing new here in politics

me: hillary isnt president
she doesnt matter
lets talk about the current president and no one else
im talking about lying about being briefed on flynn
lying about ties to russia
lying about fake news
lying about stattistics
lying about voter fraud
lying about setting up meetings
lying about his cabinet appointments taking the longest time ever
him: well you voted for hillary so it does matter since it just makes you a hypocrite
me: hillary has never been president
him: but you wanted her to be
and she lies all the time

me: i never once had the opportunity to criticize or praise her actions as president
him: would you be bringing up the same issues with her? i hiiiiiiiiiiiiighly doubt it
me: if she had interactions with russia who was hacking the US trying to manipulate the election then yes
if she kept talking about winning the election 3 months later while in office i would take issue, yes
him: how bout the interactions she had with russia as sec of state that undermined the united states?
me: but again, she isnt president
SHE WASN'T PRESIDENT
him: secretary of state doesn't matter then? cool
me: has hillary ever been the president?
him: can't wait til tillerson does someting you don't like
me: we are talking about the current president
who is the current president?
him: i'm talking about your hipocrasy
me: hillary made mistakes as secretary of state
including keeping a separate meail server
and deleting emails
i readily admitted this during the election and still admit it
him: and continuously lying throughout her career
me: but she is not president
him: but you're upset about trump's lies
but you tried to make her president
meaning you're ok with her lying but not trump

me: her actions at the present time have NOTHING to do with the future of this country
him: or you're just okay with her lies more than his
me: trump's do
him: ok so secretaries of state can lie but not presidents
understood
good policy

me: i never said that
why do you refuse to talk about trump?
him: we've been talkin gabout trump fof 45 mintues wtf are you talkin about?
me: im not talking about anything outside the current administration
him: why do you refuse to acknowledge your hypocrisy?
me: what hypocrisy?
i said i didnt like her lies
but again, is she the president?
him: you voted for her lies and wanted her lying ass to be president
me: who is the current president?
him: but you're not okay with donald trump lying
i'm trying to understand why one person's lies are better than the others
also i think actions speak louder than words
and hillary's actions are noisy as ****

me: im not ok with the president lying to the public when the lies are not a matter of national security
thats corrrect
this goes for every president
historically and in the future
him: were you ok with obama's
me: and it applies to the present
no, he was a president
him: but knowing that hillary was lying liar who lies, why did you want her to be president?
me: not sure how i could be more clear
him: did you think she would stopo lying as president?
me: im done with this convo
am I the only one that interacts with this type of person regularly?
02-17-2017 , 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
They count Republican and Democrat leaning independents in their party categories. Presumably that picks up some amount of those who disassociate with a party because of the current event of the day but still incline towards one, but presumably it doesn't pick up those who who fully drop out.

Here are two specific questions they ask to come up with the Party and leaning Party questions
Thanks, I want that polling data to be "bad" but maybe its not.
02-17-2017 , 11:08 AM
That was so ****ing painful to read. Thankfully I don't have to interact with people like that regularly. I think I'd lose my sanity.
02-17-2017 , 11:10 AM
Quote:
He used "Hillary," "she," and "her" 16 times below and "Trump," "he," and "him" only 5 times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Quote:
Whataboutism is a term describing a propaganda technique used by the Soviet Union in its dealings with the Western world during the Cold War. When criticisms were levelled at the Soviet Union, the response would be "What about..." followed by the naming of an event in the Western world.[1][2] It represents a case of tu quoque (appeal to hypocrisy),[3] a logical fallacy which attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position, without directly refuting or disproving the opponent's initial argument.

The term describing the technique was popularized in 2008 by Edward Lucas in an article for The Economist. Lucas said that this tactic is observed in the politics of modern Russia, along with this being evidence of a resurgence of Cold War and Soviet-era mentality within Russia's leadership.[1]

[...]
Although the use of whataboutism is not restricted to any particular race or belief system, according to The Economist, Russians often overuse the tactic. There are two methods of properly countering Whataboutism. The first is to "use points made by Russian leaders themselves" so that they cannot be applied to a Western nation and the second method is for Western nations to apply more self-criticism to its own media and government.[1]

The term received new attention during the annexation of Crimea by Russia and 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine.[6][7] It was also used in reference to Azerbaijan, which responded to criticism of its human rights record by holding parliamentary hearings on issues in the United States.[8]
This authoritarian propaganda technique has become one of the most common themes of talking to conservatives/Republicans.
02-17-2017 , 11:12 AM
Kal Penn (Kumar) is a notable in the Democrat establishment, left acting to work for Obama - his actual pedigree in terms of working in government is pretty good. Because of this I also think he'd be a million times better than Trump, because he actually has experience working in a Federal government.
02-17-2017 , 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippa58
Good idea. Someone should be working on a pilot right now. That would tilt Trump even more.
We had one for Dubya, one of the few outright turds pushed out by Trey Parker & Matt Stone



Of course Dubya was in many ways more "haha" funny than Trump's "wow that's horrifying!" funny.
02-17-2017 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by astro39
Kal Penn (Kumar) is a notable in the Democrat establishment, left acting to work for Obama - his actual pedigree in terms of working in government is pretty good. Because of this I also think he'd be a million times better than Trump, because he actually has experience working in a Federal government.
I've been following him for a while now and legit had no idea that was Kumar
02-17-2017 , 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namath12
I've been following him for a while now and legit had no idea that was Kumar
One of the early interviews the Keeping it 1600 (that is now Pod Save America) people did for the Ringer was with him, its worth a listen as to why he moved out of acting and his pedigree for working in the Obama administration - the breadth of his working experience is quite extensive. His CV would take a long time to read.
02-17-2017 , 11:21 AM
There is zero common ground with anyone who supports trump. They simply must be defeated.

      
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