You don't seem to understand how malleable things like proof and facts are. And again, you are clearly ignorant if you think legitimacy concerns are convoluted twisting.

Sorry bud

Why are we assuming BO had ironclad proof at the time? Investigations can take awhile. Maybe there is more info now. Maybe they have a new source now they didn't back then. Maybe there have been actions by Trump and Co. since the campaign that make the connection clearer. Maybe it just looks worse now because Trump keeps doubling down that there is no Russian connection.

It's also entirely possible that the information was technically available to certain intelligence folks, and the full scope of it never got to BO.

But yeah, this makes the Hillary email statement even more amazing in hindsight.

I guess they probably knew to keep whatever was discussed over the phone to be short of illegal, and saved the bombshells for the face to face meetings. Although judging from the stupidity of Flynn going flat out illegal while talking to the ****ing ambassador over the phone, who knows.

Though I'm not sure that whatever they were plotting pre-election would qualify as treason, they were probably mostly plotting how to get Trump elected. I would think the real **** would be starting about now since he has taken office.

I would say the odds of the wall, obamacare repeal, corporate tax cuts and the like all took a massive hit in the last 2 days. This should do a good job neutering him for the foreseeable future.

manafort was named but we kinda knew that one

I'm actually starting to think Trump is letting all this stuff "happen" to him so that he can resign and say everything is rigged against him. He can then go make Trump TV along with Breitbart and go up against the MSM. He gets out of the responsibility of being POTUS and his crazies will follow him.

There's a law that US officials aren't supposed to influence the election using the powers of their office. That's why the Comey letter was such a big deal. It could have (and did) have a huge impact on the election and could be perceived as the FBI (or enter another agency in its place) trying to throw an election. Obama could have through the whatever information he had didn't rise to straight treason and with the law against interfering with the election on the other side of the scale chose not to come forward with it.

Part one - "Foreign powers are trying to influence the election" is way less damning and scandalous than part two - "Our major party nominee is directly working with foreign powers to influence the election".

I agree and understand with this almost entirely. That's kind of my whole point honestly which is that the information he had didn't rise to Trump directly commiting a crime or treason. If it did I would think it would be well within Obama's right to allow this information to be public assuming the proof was ironclad. That's why I think it most likely isn't or at least wasn't. I mean SNL has been having Putin skits for like a year. The fact he has/had a relationship with Putin is admitted to by Trump himself in old interviews.

huh? Obama did not release any part before the election, if that's what you're trying to say.

Stop worrying about impeachment until Trump's approval rating drops below 20%.

But again, why couldn't it be leaked. I mean it was leaked now by the same people in these agencies as were there 6 months ago. If they wanted to get rid of Trump this could have come to light long ago if #2 is an actual real thing (we haven't seen any evidence of this yet, hopefully we do).

it's definitely a bit weird how Obama fits in all of this. Everything else seems to be part of the same puzzle becoming clearer but we're not there quite yet.

FBI director clearly wanted hillary to lose the election. Evidence doesn't matter here.

Trump supporters would've never believed obama's claim ever and fox news would've ran "they're trying to rig it for hillary" style rhetoric 24/7. Let's face it, there definitely could've been riots.

Also, obama probably knew what'd happen if he went against his own FBI; we're learning already what happens when you piss them off.

I don't know what "ironclad" proof is or isn't in people's minds--For many it'd have to be that 19% rosneft sale flips up everything owned by trump and even then there's still gonna be a good chunk of people not believing it.

All I'm really trying to say is that it's unlikely there is a smoking gun here at least with regard to Trump. If there was certainly this would have come to light one way or another months ago. It wouldn't undermine the election either before or after to release this, it would be exposing one of the great treasonous acts of all time in this country assuming you had absolute proof.

Occam's Razor says that when you put everything together as far as Comey/FBI, Flynn/Lock Her Up!, Trump/Putin, Pop Vote vs Electoral Vote, etc., it all points to a Russian/Trump connection. And that's not even counting Sessions/Exxon, Trump business ties/not releasing taxes, etc. And god knows what else.

But emails. That bitch! She used acid! Acid! Oh and Ben Gazi! 4 people died while she lied!

While likely true, it seems the intelligence community isn't cool with being completely infiltrated by Russia and are willing to act unilaterally to fight against it.

It seems Trump and his people are probably not smart enough to pull off being double agents while running the country for a full term, so while this round isn't going to bring him down good chance a future round will.

It wasn't reasonable. Yes, in theory. Nothing works like any of that. I mean, the idea that the ~entire civil bureaucracy all sounded alarms, simultaneously crying wolf. I doubt he fundamentally misunderstands any of this... it's more like he wants to tear it down. Exists for a reason. This is why 'governments' change seamlessly, and each change in administration doesn't result in chaos. This is why mass purges of the civil bureaucracy is, by definition, a coup. On and on.

What is Comey's supposed motivation for wanting Trump to be President? I've seen a lot of accusations flying around and his behaviour seems dodgy to me but I haven't heard any rationale for why he behaved in this manner.

Iran/contra was hardly the only thing too. It was amazingly horrible and crazy that anyone survived that, but it wasn't the only thing.

138 administration officials, the most of any administration ever, were indicted and/or convicted.

HUD scandal - rigged construction contracts for campaign contributors
Interior Department
Lobbying scandal - convicted Chief of Staff and Press Secretary
EPA scandal - misuse of superfund money
Inslaw - copyright violation in deliberate attempt to drive company into bankruptcy and distribute their software for covert intelligence.
Savings and Loan Crisis - $160B bailout referred to by Galbraith as "the largest and costliest venture in public misfeasance, malfeasance, and larceny of all time."
Operation Ill Wind - defense contractor corruption
Wedtech Scandal - bribery, Ed Meese, AG, resigns
Debate Gate - Reagan stole Carter's briefing papers for a debate.

And yet, Reagan is still a hero to all these Trumpkins.

No one is denying this and strawmaning with emails when no one has mentioned that is just the typical brutal level of discourse in this forum all too often. Trump has ties to Russia is not the issue right? The issue is whether or not Trump is being influenced by Russia. Those are two very different things with very different consequences. I mean the latter is probably more likely than not true also but if there is proof where is the harm in releasing it. Having a Russian operative for a President is not something to just sit back and see what happens. I personally don't believe that is what Obama or the intelligence community would do.

Because **** Hillary?

Sounds reasonable. Someone posted a twitter thread expressing similar reasoning and hypothesizing the leaks are being done to ensure a fair investigation is actually done.

Did it really? Damn. I was born in '75. Always assumed Watergate was quick as in weeks or maybe 2 months.